LM sale , Birmingham-Bedford

[dvboy]

I am looking at a return from Birmingham to Bedford on 1st Jan, returning 2nd Jan, and on the LM website there is an "LM ONLINE RAIL SALE Off-Peak Rtn" at £17.99, but the outward journey doesn't involve any London Midland trains, all the journey options shown are XC & EM changing at Leicester - however on the returns, these are all greyed out and all journeys suggested involve a bus to Bletchley and LM onwards from there.

Availability:
This ticket is offered at a special online only discount. It is only available for travel on London Midland services.

...suggests the journey being shown on the 1st isn't valid, but the site will let me buy the ticket.

Can anyone explain why this might be, as I was hoping to combine this with a Leicester-Nottingham day return on the 2nd Jan, to go to Nottingham in the evening, but I can't decide if that would be valid or not, and if not, why is it suggesting this route on the 1st.
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Appears LM are running a Sunday service on the 1st, and the Bedford-Bletchley line doesn't have a Sunday service, but that doesn't explain why it makes the ticket valid via Leicester instead. I have to get to Bedford, and don't want to be done for an invalid ticket by XC or EM!

 

[tony_mac]

It looks like LM have messed up the text for the ticket restrictions.

The LM Sale page
http://www.londonmidland.com/sale/
clearly says

If your ticket is marked 'Any Permitted' under the word 'route', then you can use any train operator for your journey.

But the 'Any Permitted' tickets on the ticketing site do have the text 'It is only available for travel on London Midland services'. This text definitely looks to be wrong - it should not be applied to 'Any Permitted' tickets (or else they aren't Any Permitted!)

 

[dvboy]

I'm pretty sure it won't say Any Permitted, if it's not LM Only it'll say Not Via London I'd have thought. The above also doesn't explain why the return journeys via Leicester are greyed out on the 2nd.

 

[tony_mac]

I was looking at it more generally - the text 'It is only available for travel on London Midland services' is included for ALL sale tickets, which contradicts the conditions of the offer (as well as what will be written on the ticket).

It won't be a problem* - 'Not Via London' does not mean 'London Midland Only' (see NRCoC condition 10), I am not aware of there ever being a problem with their previous sale tickets.

For this journey, it's only offering the sale tickets on Weekends and Bank Holidays - I have no idea why.

* - Subject to there not being a woefully ill-informed member of staff who makes up their own rules, which is always a remote possibility

 

[dvboy]

So could I use the ticket to return via Leicester (and break my journey there) on the 2nd even though these journeys are greyed out in the journey planner?

 

[yorkie]

Until the ticket prints out, it's unclear what route will be printed on the ticket. But if it lets you select a journey that is not LM Only then I would expect the route to be "NOT VIA LONDON" rather than "LDN MIDLAND ONLY"

In the unlikely event that it gives you reservations on other operators and is routed "LDN MIDLAND ONLY" then that's an issuing error, but I'd still see it as forming a contract for travel, however you could alternatively arrange a refund if you didn't want to be involved in a potential dispute.

If the sale tickets are meant to be routed "LDN MIDLAND ONLY" and they're not, then I expect that this will soon be fixed now it's been brought to LMs attention! If, on the other hand, they're not meant to be routed "LDN MIDLAND ONLY" then there isn't an issue.

 

[tony_mac]

Until the ticket prints out, it's unclear what route will be printed on the ticket. But if it lets you select a journey that is not LM Only then I would expect the route to be "NOT VIA LONDON" rather than "LDN MIDLAND ONLY"

Wheb buying, it does say

LM ONLINE RAIL SALE Off-Peak Rtn £18.00
valid via: Via Not London
Valid on off peak services by the route/train operator shown. Return travel any day within 1 month.

So I expect it would print correctly.

 

[dvboy]

Until the ticket prints out, it's unclear what route will be printed on the ticket. But if it lets you select a journey that is not LM Only then I would expect the route to be "NOT VIA LONDON" rather than "LDN MIDLAND ONLY"

In the unlikely event that it gives you reservations on other operators and is routed "LDN MIDLAND ONLY" then that's an issuing error, but I'd still see it as forming a contract for travel, however you could alternatively arrange a refund if you didn't want to be involved in a potential dispute.

If the sale tickets are meant to be routed "LDN MIDLAND ONLY" and they're not, then I expect that this will soon be fixed now it's been brought to LMs attention! If, on the other hand, they're not meant to be routed "LDN MIDLAND ONLY" then there isn't an issue.

Didn't offer me any reservations on the outward journey when I tried to make a dummy booking earlier as far as I could without parting with any money.

Still unsure why it is greying out journeys via Leicester on the return leg. If I put in via Leicester specificially, I don't get the ticket (it is greyed out).

I can't exactly request a refund on the basis that I can't travel back via Leicester, or argue its validity via Leicester if I choose to do so and get pulled up on it by XC or EM, if this isn't an option in the first place according to the website (even though outward it seems to be)

Note sometimes it shows as £18 and sometimes £17.99* depending on where you click on the LM website to go through to the planner, but the result is the same.
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I have bought it now, we will see what happens.

 

[bb21]

If it is priced at £17.99 then I expect it to be discounted from £24, which is an Off-Peak Return routed LDN MIDLAND ONLY, so you cannot use it via Leicester.

Neither Route NOT VIA LONDON nor Route +VIA LONDON is priced by LM so I think you're out of luck on that one.

 

[tony_mac]

This whole thing is a bit crazy!

It's priced (and on sale) as if it is 'London Midland only', but described as a 'not Via London' ticket.

It can be booked as 'London Midland only' on any day, or on other operators only at weekends.

It should print out as 'not Via London', in which case there is unlikely to be any problems with acceptance. However, if it is actually printed as 'London Midland only' then obviously there would be problems. I guess the only way to be sure is to buy one, which I realise isn't very helpful.

I have bought it now, we will see what happens.

Does the route in your confirmation email say 'Not Via London'?
If it does, it may be worth printing it out, just in case the ticket doesn't match.

 

[dvboy]

Collected it today. On screen it said Return: on any London Midland train, and printed ticket type is ONLINE ONLY SVR, route NOT VIA LONDON

I am going to use it via Leicester both ways (can't get to Bedford tomorrow if I don't)

 

[RJ]

The specially discounted tickets have the same validity as the corresponding normal priced ticket. That's the long and short of it.

See the text under "Can I travel only on London Midland trains with my 'sale' ticket?" for the principle that applies to interavailable tickets eligible for this offer.

 

[dvboy]

The specially discounted tickets have the same validity as the corresponding normal priced ticket. That's the long and short of it.

See the text under "Can I travel only on London Midland trains with my 'sale' ticket?" for the principle that applies to interavailable tickets eligible for this offer.

In which case why the return journeys via Leicester are incorrectly greyed out.

Correction: I think it's been set up with the wrong restriction of Not Via London instead of LM Only.
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Turns out I won't be making the journey anyway now, so I am going to try and apply for a refund.