Christmas/New Year rail travel

[transmanche]

Of course emergency services will still have to work over Christmas but no one actually NEEDS a train when most work places are closed anyway.

There are plenty of people who don't have access to a car.

 

[Greenback]

There are plenty of people who don't have access to a car.

This is true, but for me the question is whether they need public transport on this particluar day?

In my view the majority don't need to travel. It isn't an essential journey for most people who want to travel, it's mostly leisure or optional travel.

I expect a lot of people will disagree with my view though!

 

[transmanche]

This is true, but for me the question is whether they need public transport on this particluar day?

In my view the majority don't need to travel. It isn't an essential journey for most people who want to travel, it's mostly leisure or optional travel.

It would seem quite odd if the railway had the same view: "we'll transport you, but only if we think your reason for travelling is good enough"

This article from 2008 suggests that Network Rail have considered allowing trains to run on Christmas and Boxing day

 

[455driver]

Just tried to book my car in for an MOT on boxing day and do you know what, all the garages are shut.
Why cant I get my car MOTed when I want.

Right who else is shut for the week?
Why do I have to have the kids at home? Cant the schools open on the 27th December onwards, Ilike to see the kids but a whole week with them hock: I mean how many weeks off a year do the teachers need/want?

Factories, why is it, if I need something making it has to wait until after the new year?

By the way, my tongue is very firmly in my cheek!

 

[tbtc]

I'm afraid I can't buy the shopping argument. It wouldn't do anyone any harm for the shops to be shut on Christmas Day and Boxing Day then we wouldn't have to worry about transport.

Shop workers, as well as train staff might be glad to have a couple of days off on the trot

Silly people for wanting to shop - they should all know better.

The reality is that most places/ shops etc that are open on a normal Sunday are open on Boxing Day - maybe it wouldn't do anyone any harm to keep Sunday as a day of rest, but there's a lot of demand to travel on a normal Sunday.

There may even be a lot of demand to travel on a really busy shopping day like Boxing Day, but sadly we'll never know.

 

[radamfi]

Should private cars be allowed to operate on Christmas Day? A lot of people have to work on Christmas Day to allow car use. More police need to be employed because of accidents and traffic offences. More ambulance and hospital staff needed to deal with the accidents. Breakdown services operate and some petrol stations are open.

 

[Greenback]

It would seem quite odd if the railway had the same view: "we'll transport you, but only if we think your reason for travelling is good enough"

No, what I am saying is that ther emight be a case for subsidised rail services on Boxing Day if it was essential for people to travel. The railway is free to run any train services it wants on that day, the reason that they don't is probbaly because they feel it isn't worth it in terms of revenue and that they won't get any extra money from government for doing it!

This article from 2008 suggests that Network Rail have considered allowing trains to run on Christmas and Boxing day

They have and some Boxing Day services have run in the past (I'm not sur eif anything is running this year).

While there may be a lot of demand in certain areas I'm not convinced that there is sufficient demand to make it worthwhile for TOC's to run many services. Perhaps they should do more to find out, but it must be very difficult to forecast which services and routes would cover their costs, and which wouldn't.

 

[sarahj]

As I said ealier, we Southern are running an hourly Brighton main line 12 car service and I'm working, on Boxing day.

 

[coastwallker]

As I said ealier, we Southern are running an hourly Brighton main line 12 car service and I'm working, on Boxing day.

And I am very grateful to you as it means that I have my son, who is a chef in Brighton, home for Christmas Day and he can get back in order to cook for his customers on Boxing Day evening.

 

[anthony263]

Not sure about Christmas day but I do think there could be demand for a limited service on boxing day especially on routes which serve major destinations the West London line being an example withe the westfield shopping centre @ Sheperds Bush. Of course if just Southern ran a service over the west London line on boxing day I think we could see major overcrowding if there are high passenger numbers

I would like to see a 2 hourly service operate between Swansea & Newport calling at all stations on boxing day thius would allow passengers to visit St Davids 2 in Cardiff as well as the shops in Swansea & Newport.


Besides as for christmas day even if the trains wont run coach operaters such as Megabus and National express will run services

 

[Ferret]

I've said it before......around about 12 months ago in fact (!!!!), if there really is a valid business case for running a Boxing Day service then I can't see a problem with it - people will volunteer if it's worth their while. I don't see that there'll ever be a service on Christmas Day, certainly not within the next decade.

 

[313103]

Other then shopping (which from what i read on here is what you want to do) i see no other reason from running a train service.

Of course also everyone keeps mentioning that the only staff required to run a train is a driver (numerous quotes have been made of just the driver being required to work), if that is the case (of which i dont mind) all the station staf, all the fitters, all the signallers and all the guards would have the day/s off. This would mean no one to open and man the stations, no one to repairor maintain the trains, no one to maintain the siganals so all will be at the default position (which is a red aspect!) and of course where they still have people like me no trains can run in DOO mode. Not going to have much of a service then are we?

I also do not have a car so unless the trains are running how do you think i am going to get to Willesden fom where i live A eight mile walk. If you want a train service to run for you to go on shopping trips i want a train service so i can take you shopping, so we will have trains running around with nothing more then air conditioning and a member of staff to get them to work.

As the private companies look at overheds and net cost impact do you think they would want to get there trains out of bed for the one/two days. Companies would only do it if they are told to by the respective bodies that ultimately run the services or if they can make more money then they normally do.

 

[transmanche]

While there may be a lot of demand in certain areas I'm not convinced that there is sufficient demand to make it worthwhile for TOC's to run many services. Perhaps they should do more to find out, but it must be very difficult to forecast which services and routes would cover their costs, and which wouldn't.

I think they should; events such as the annual Boxing Day races at Kempton Park (which has its own railway station) attract a lot of people.

Just look at London Underground. Although the limited Christmas Day service ended in 1979, the Boxing Day service has been gradually expanded over the years to Saturday service levels.

 

[313103]

Just look at London Underground. Although the limited Christmas Day service ended in 1979, the Boxing Day service has been gradually expanded over the years to Saturday service levels.

And that is the reason why ASLEF members are taking strike action on Boxing Day. When that agreement was made it was made on the understanding that it would be at the same service levels at the time of the agreement. Now of course Tfl increase the service levels on a year by year basis, soon they will be saying we need to have service levels upto a Monday to Friday rush hour patten.

 

[transmanche]

And that is the reason why ASLEF members are taking strike action on Boxing Day. When that agreement was made it was made on the understanding that it would be at the same service levels at the time of the agreement.

Well it clearly shows that the demand is there.

The world has moved on on the last 20 years. Newspapers are printed, shops are open, families live further apart. More people want to travel on Boxing Day.

Now whilst I acknowledge that no individual person is going to like the fact that their chance of being rostered to work on Boxing Day is higher than it was 20 years ago. But the fact remains; if you work in a service industry, you have to accept that you need to work when customers want to use that service. If you don't accept that level of flexibility, then you have to consider whether that's the right job for you.

Now of course Tfl increase the service levels on a year by year basis, soon they will be saying we need to have service levels upto a Monday to Friday rush hour patten.

Clearly that's not the case, as they run a modified Saturday service on the 'working' days between Christmas and New Year. Again matching the supply to the demand.

 

[Cletus]

Southeastern Boxing Day:
They're running a half hourly high speed service will run between Ashford International and St Pancras International from 08:00 until 20:00, calling at Ebbsfleet International and Stratford International.

 

[scarby]

Re: Boxing Day lack of service.

How is someone who relies on rail transport, and has travelled a lengthy distance to be with family over Christmas, supposed to be able to get back to the town/city where he/she works to start work/business on the morning of the 27th?

 

[Monty]

Re: Boxing Day lack of service.

How is someone who relies on rail transport, and has travelled a lengthy distance to be with family over Christmas, supposed to be able to get back to the town/city where he/she works to start work/business on the morning of the 27th?

I expect that person would factor it into their journey, as the railway network has always had little to no service on Boxing Day. Someone who relies on rail transport would be well aware of this.

 

[jon0844]

Of course also everyone keeps mentioning that the only staff required to run a train is a driver (numerous quotes have been made of just the driver being required to work),

The reason is that there are only so many drivers and you can't just go to another TOC and see if any drivers from there fancy working another route/line.

Drivers are therefore the make or break to any services.

Of course, there might be other people that can't move around as easily either so they'd apply too.

Many others could be moved around, or even hired in as agency staff if necessary.

 

[A-driver]

Lets get this straight-drivers are not the reason for no Boxing Day work. My company asked for volunteers to come in and work a handful of night shifts Boxing Day night. The list of volunteers is almost long enough to run a full Sunday service.

As has been said, Xmas and Boxing Day is a good chance to take long possessions for engineering works, heavy maintenance and cleaning if rolling stock, IT system upgrades etc which can't be done whilst trains are running.

If they try and run trains with a mix of replacement buses then they have to find the buses-and that means finding bus drivers willing to come into work, plus staff to coordinate the busses and plan bus times, guess demand for buses etc and you either end up with dozens of empty busses sitting waiting for non existant passengers or run the only 3 buses you can get hold of for hundreds of queuing angry passengers.

I don't know why drivers are being broght into this-they are not the reason no service runs!

 

[jon0844]

It was brought into it because some drivers have said they'd NEVER work in a million years and implied that no drivers would.. but what you've said has given a totally different viewpoint, if many actually would volunteer. By the way, this is what I always suspected would have been the case as not everyone sees Christmas a big deal, for many different reasons.

On the basis that drivers were asked, and Network Rail said in 2008 about the possibility of allowing services on both Christmas Day and Boxing Day, all of this does suggest that someone is assuming there might be demand on at least one day - and so services will be an inevitability one day.

I accept they're good days to do maintenance, but clearly that's not something that has to happen - just as Network Rail has been working hard to work around a live railway to decrease the number of rail replacement bus services (not that I know how successful that has been).

 

[dk1]

Us drivers could always intimate we will work & then when the service is announced & they actually ask for volunteers insist on quadruple pay, an extra weeks leave & M&S vouchers

 

[313103]

Re: Boxing Day lack of service.

How is someone who relies on rail transport, and has travelled a lengthy distance to be with family over Christmas, supposed to be able to get back to the town/city where he/she works to start work/business on the morning of the 27th?

I asked this earlier but got no reply. So i will ask again 'How do i get to work when no trains are running for me to get to work?

Walking Eight miles is not the answer!

 

[jon0844]

Given how many people are working Boxing Day (retail, pubs, entertainment etc), of which many might travel by public transport, how are they supposed to get to work?

 

[Rich McLean]

When I used to work on boxing day, its was either fork out a days wages on a taxi, or if I was lucky enough get a lift.

 

[A-driver]

If you sign up to a job which includes Boxing Day work you should know you will need to get there without trains surely? And before people go off on one I have signed up to a job which dosnt include Boxing Day work.

 

[scarby]

If you sign up to a job which includes Boxing Day work you should know you will need to get there without trains surely? And before people go off on one I have signed up to a job which dosnt include Boxing Day work.

I think the actual reality of the situation "on the ground" is that most people find a way to work around the situation. Thankfully we live in a much more flexible society as far as work goes than was the case 50 years ago, not to mention the fact that whatever some people say, we have far more leisure time (This weekend I got an automated e-mail from a business I am working with saying they are more or less shutting down from now until January 7).

Faced with no trains on the 26th, what most people do who rely on trains and perhaps have gone away a long distance to be with family is take another day off (Thursday 27th), and in that case probably Friday too, and maybe for example agree to work over New Year instead if need be.

At the same time the competing force against this is that we are also a much more mobile society than 50 years ago, so many people do want to be able to get around on the 26th, whatever their motivation is for that doesn't matter.

IMHO I can't see the Christmas Day situation changing at all, but it seems there are more train services running now on December 26 than some years ago (I think), and this trend will probably continue to creep in that direction, as I can't see it going the opposite way.