Creation of the Universe

[Bevan Price]

Why do so many people talk about "the universe" when they mean "our universe". For all we know, there may be a multitude of universes, beyond the range of detection from earth, and which may have started at different times, with their own "big bangs".

And maybe a gravitational effect from the other universes may help cause the observed expansion of our universe.

Personally, I view God (assuming he/she exists) as the being who laid down the laws of physics and matter. A tiny difference in these laws might prevent the existence of protons, neutrons, electrons and all the other fundamental particles of which matter consists.

 

[AeroSpace]

I'd like to point out that there is no contradiction between a scientific belief in the Big Bang theory and a simultaneous expectation that it will be disproved at a later date.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think we're a bit more advanced, and know more about the Universe, than they did then.

This statement adds more credence to what my earlier postings have stated. If we, at this point of time, have expanded our knowledge and understanding when compared to what were the current set of beliefs that prevailed in the time of what we describe as the Middle Ages, who can not say that in a similar 500-year period of time going forward from the present time, the prevailing views held today will not be similarly treated by those in the 26th century?

 

[Butts]

This statement adds more credence to what my earlier postings have stated. If we, at this point of time, have expanded our knowledge and understanding when compared to what were the current set of beliefs that prevailed in the time of what we describe as the Middle Ages, who can not say that in a similar 500-year period of time going forward from the present time, the prevailing views held today will not be similarly treated by those in the 26th century?

Are you suggesting our understanding of the concept of "nothing" is fundamentally flawed - this is the only way to answer......

If there is nothing how can anything be created - a simplification of my original premise.

All the talk about "Big Bang" is irrelevant unless our understanding of nothing is incorrect.

 

[Oswyntail]

I would like to point out that I merely said I expect the theory to be disproved. I believe that any scientist putting forward a theory expects likewise, and believes his theory will be disproved. This is how theories evolve and are tested. And yes, I am willing to say that there seems to be a great confusion about the nature of time, and its use in famous equations and theories suggests equal confusion there.
What really gets my goat is "scientists" who claim theories are facts that are per se undisputable.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Though it is, of course, possible that the Bible Story is true As Paul has said, there is tiddly squit real evidence either way

That a is a bit of a naive statement to make.
There is exactly zero evidence that the biblical version of events is true.
There is a fair bit of evidence to suggest the big bang theory is true (there must be some evidence or we wouldn't have arrived at the theory in the first place).

Just because we do not know what caused the big bang, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[Butts]

That a is a bit of a naive statement to make.
There is exactly zero evidence that the biblical version of events is true.
There is a fair bit of evidence to suggest the big bang theory is true (there must be some evidence or we wouldn't have arrived at the theory in the first place).

Just because we do not know what caused the big bang, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Are you able to explain how you can create anything from nothing ?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Are you able to explain how you can create anything from nothing ?

As I said, just because we do not know what caused the big bang, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

The argument that we don't know what caused it thus it did not happen is the same argument used by those who thing evolution is not correct (we don't know what started it thus it is not correct).

 

[Butts]

As I said, just because we do not know what caused the big bang, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

The argument that we don't know what caused it thus it did not happen is the same argument used by those who thing evolution is not correct (we don't know what started it thus it is not correct).

I'm not talking about the Big Bang necessarily - just the concept of creating something from nothing

 

[Yew]

Our whole universe was in a hot dense state,
Then nearly fourteen billion years ago expansion started. Wait...
The Earth began to cool,
The autotrophs began to drool,
Neanderthals developed tools,
We built a wall (we built the pyramids),
Math, science, history, unraveling the mysteries,
That all started with the big bang!

The big bang theory seems to have it close...

 

[WelshBluebird]

I'm not talking about the Big Bang necessarily - just the concept of creating something from nothing

We don't know. But we are looking.

In terms of the big bang, we don't know there was "nothing"
One of the theories is a cycle of big bangs and big crunches.

And even ignoring that, however strange it may seem, Quantum Physics does include the general idea of something coming out of nothing (I don't know enough about quantum physics to explain it, but it is something to do with probabilities and such I think!). Certainly it is no more weird than some other parts of quantum physics that we know to be true.

The big bang theory seems to have it close...

And the rest of the song:

"Since the dawn of man" is really not that long,
As every galaxy was formed in less time than it takes to sing this song.
A fraction of a second and the elements were made.
The bipeds stood up straight,
The dinosaurs all met their fate,
They tried to leap but they were late
And they all died (they froze their asses off)
The oceans and Pangea
See ya wouldn't wanna be ya
Set in motion by the same big bang!

It all started with the big BANG!

It's expanding ever outward but one day
It will pause and start to go the other way,
Collapsing ever inward, we won't be here, it won't be heard
Our best and brightest figure that it'll make an even bigger bang!

Australopithecus would really have been sick of us
Debating how we're here, they're catching deer (we're catching viruses)
Religion or astronomy (Descartes or Deuteronomy)
It all started with the big bang!

Music and mythology, Einstein and astrology
It all started with the big bang!
It all started with the big BANG!

 

[Oswyntail]

There is a fair bit of evidence to suggest the big bang theory is true (there must be some evidence or we wouldn't have arrived at the theory in the first place).

And yet you can say of my offering..

That a is a bit of a naive statement to make.

Since the beginning of thought, people, even respectable scientists, have been misinterpreting the validity or even existence of evidence in order to arrive at theories.

There is exactly zero evidence that the biblical version of events is true.

All the evidence can be fitted in to the biblical version, for example by stating that an all-powerful being has planted it.

Just because we do not know what caused the big bang, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Of course we are all begging the question anyway. If, by the term "Big Bang", we mean "The event that started the universe" then we are just talking in circles; if we mean "an event that explains the origin of certain observed phenomena" it becomes meaninglessly trivial.

 

[Nick W]

There have been people believing the bible's creation account since way before the Big Bang Theory was hypothesized and there will still be people believing it when a new scientific theory replaces it.

 

[Bungle73]

There have been people believing the bible's creation account since way before the Big Bang Theory was hypothesized and there will still be people believing it when a new scientific theory replaces it.

That's because there are people around willing to believe in any old rubbish. Religion is full of people who question nothing and accept the illogical as fact.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The way i look at the big bang and where the stuff came from is as follows. we have 3 dimensions, they are unlimited. They go on forever they go in all directions infintely.

If time is the 4th dimension, there is every chance it too has no boundarys. So there is no beginning and no end to it. So stuff may not have just appeared. It has always existed? And always will exist? A confusing way to look at it sure but i think it does pose interesting questions.

 

[Condor7]

That's because there are people around willing to believe in any old rubbish. Religion is full of people who question nothing and accept the illogical as fact.

Read through the various attempts on here of those trying to explain how something can come from nothing, and then say "Religion.......accepts the illogical as fact" You are joking arn't you?

 

[Butts]

The way i look at the big bang and where the stuff came from is as follows. we have 3 dimensions, they are unlimited. They go on forever they go in all directions infintely.

If time is the 4th dimension, there is every chance it too has no boundarys. So there is no beginning and no end to it. So stuff may not have just appeared. It has always existed? And always will exist? A confusing way to look at it sure but i think it does pose interesting questions.

Is this where TARDIS comes from......

Time and Relative Dimensions in Space ....

Have you been speaking to Dr Who

 

[Bevan Price]

Though it is, of course, possible that the Bible Story is true As Paul has said, there is tiddly squit real evidence either way

The Bible does not specify how God created our universe. Maybe He/She initiated a big bang.

The remainder of the Bible is largely a history of the Jewish people, written by and for relatively primitive people. Some might say that sometimes they use (or abuse) the name of God as an excuse to conquer other peoples' lands - others might view things differently.

 

[SS4]

Though it is, of course, possible that the Bible Story is true As Paul has said, there is tiddly squit real evidence either way

Pretty much and I'll be eating a huge amount of humble pie if it's proved to be the case

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Of course, there is the existence of God who still finds time to help matters along, even to those who have been in despair and this was proved to the Aston Villa supporters, some of which reside upon this forum.

The Lord saw the visit of the "Arsenal" to Villa Park and caused the lack of goalscoring by the Arsenal forwards and saw it was good. He then saw the approach of "Reading" to Villa Park a few days later and again caused the lack of goalscoring by the Reading forwards and was well pleased and sent down the Football Angel of the Lord to breathe the power of goalscoring onto the Aston Villa team and the goal was scored.

After recent results, it surely can have only been Divine Intervention that caused Aston Villa to have two consecutive home matches with no goals conceded..

I know that this posting would normally have been posted on the Football thread, but such events as described must come under the "Strange and Wonderful Ways" department of the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[bb21]

...
After recent results, it surely can have only been Divine Intervention that caused Aston Villa to have two consecutive home matches with no goals conceeded..
...

I believe there is steam coming out of SS4's head at the moment.

 

[LE Greys]

The Bible does not specify how God created our universe. Maybe He/She initiated a big bang.

The remainder of the Bible is largely a history of the Jewish people, written by and for relatively primitive people. Some might say that sometimes they use (or abuse) the name of God as an excuse to conquer other peoples' lands - others might view things differently.

I've always considered Genesis to be allegorical anyway, if not apocryphal. After all, since Adam and Eve weren't around, who was there to record the events? Somebody had to write it down at some point, and I don't know of anything that says it was seen by somebody in a vision or handed down from God somewhere, it just happened.

Which, oddly, isn't all that different from any other viewpoint. As I see it, what was there before time is probably something we will never be able to answer (and I won't even be able to comprehend without my head exploding). While it's interesting to speculate, I'm far more concerned with preventing the world from going to rack and ruin today.

 

[SS4]

Of course, there is the existence of God who still finds time to help matters along, even to those who have been in despair and this was proved to the Aston Villa supporters, some of which reside upon this forum.

The Lord saw the visit of the "Arsenal" to Villa Park and caused the lack of goalscoring by the Arsenal forwards and saw it was good. He then saw the approach of "Reading" to Villa Park a few days later and again caused the lack of goalscoring by the Reading forwards and was well pleased and sent down the Football Angel of the Lord to breathe the power of goalscoring onto the Aston Villa team and the goal was scored.

After recent results, it surely can have only been Divine Intervention that caused Aston Villa to have two consecutive home matches with no goals conceeded..

I know that this posting would normally have been posted on the Football thread, but such events as described must come under the "Strange and Wonderful Ways" department of the Kingdom of Heaven.

I prefer to think of it as good karma over how we've treated Petrov

edit: if the Kingdom of Heaven is Villa Park

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Which, oddly, isn't all that different from any other viewpoint. As I see it, what was there before time is probably something we will never be able to answer (and I won't even be able to comprehend without my head exploding). While it's interesting to speculate, I'm far more concerned with preventing the world from going to rack and ruin today.

What a most sensible and well-written posting, especially with regards to the final part.

 

[Bungle73]

What a most sensible and well-written posting, especially with regards to the final part.

Except the last part is a bit of a cliché, and a wrong one at that. There's nothing going on now in the world now that hasn't always gone on. In fact anyone who knows anything about history knows that in general people now are far better off than those in the past.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And a also, of course, understanding how the universe works is how we progress.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Except the last part is a bit of a cliché, and a wrong one at that.

I would disagree that the last part is a cliché. I would prefer it to be described as a description of a personally-held opinion and one that I too agree with in its sentiments. What may well seem to be a cliché in your eyes (and I totally respect your own particular view of this as such), may well be seen in a different light in the eyes of other beholders.

I still live in hope that there will soon be one subject upon which both you and I will share common ground.

 

[LE Greys]

Except the last part is a bit of a cliché, and a wrong one at that. There's nothing going on now in the world now that hasn't always gone on. In fact anyone who knows anything about history knows that in general people now are far better off than those in the past.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And a also, of course, understanding how the universe works is how we progress.

Mea culpa .

But I think there is something going on today (and for the past two centuries) that hasn't happened before, Humans are capable of affecting the world they live in far more than before. I'm also very interested in how the universe works, but I don't really know if we are capable of understanding how anything other than the universe works whilst still living within it.

For example, does the universe spin? Everything in it seems to spin, so it's logical to assume the whole lot is spinning. If so, what is it spinning relative to? We can't answer that whilst still existing within a universe when we are incapable of seeing the edge, let alone beyond it.

 

[Johnuk123]

http://news.yahoo.com/u-planned-blow-moon-nuke-during-cold-war-054423415.html

If this had come about the universe would have been a teeny bit smaller.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

http://news.yahoo.com/u-planned-blow-moon-nuke-during-cold-war-054423415.html

If this had come about the universe would have been a teeny bit smaller.

I note the typical "over the top" media headline of "blowing up the moon" when no such event was intended by this proposed action stated in the story. Look at the size of the Earth's moon and ask how large a nuclear explosion would have to be to achieve what the headline states....and what the subsequent effects might be then visited upon the Earth in terms of the lack of the effect of the Moon upon the tidal systems of the Earth, let alone the amount of radiation that could well be emitted from such an explosion.

I am not at all scientifically-minded and the two points I mention here just came to mind whilst reading the article in the link. Has anyone else, with a far more scholarly knowledge of nuclear fissionable material, any more detailed thoughts upon this matter ?

 

[Johnuk123]

I note the typical "over the top" media headline of "blowing up the moon" when no such event was intended by this proposed action stated in the story. Look at the size of the Earth's moon and ask how large a nuclear explosion would have to be to achieve what the headline states....and what the subsequent effects might be then visited upon the Earth in terms of no effect of the Moon upon the tidal systems of the Earth, let alone the amount of radiation that could well be emitted from such an explosion.

I am not at all scientifically-minded and the two points I mention here just came to mind whilst reading the article in the link. Has anyone else, with a far more scholarly knowledge of nuclear fissionable material, any more detailed thoughts upon this matter ?

It may not have been blown up but to even seriously think of such a hair-brained scheme as detonating a nuclear bomb on the moon for no good reason makes you wonder at some peoples intelligence.