Use of 1st class when Std is overcrowded?

[Greenback]

It will be completely different, particularly in the down direction, where currently there's an incentive to be at the back of the train because it is nearer the single exit from P7 (the old P4).

In the future all main line down services except the Newbury route will be on the island, and there'll be staircases/escalators to/from the 'transfer deck' (aka massive footbridge) in both east and west facing directions. These replace the existing footbridge which will be removed, so they aren't an additional option. Then the transfer deck position will be at the mid point of the train, and the route to coach A (assuming current HST) will be no longer than the route to the front of the train.

IMHO the new layout ought to go some way to achieving better passenger distribution along the trains - though no doubt pax will still try it on to be near the front at Paddington. But 50% of those who claim to be 'running for the train at the last minute' really ought to end up at the back...

(Oh and anyone using the lifts ought to end up in the middle!)

Ah yes, I remember the transfer deck, but I couldn't remember if this was additional so thanks for the clarification. It sound sas though there will be a slight improvement, but I expect that there will still be bunching around the stairs and escalators, after all, you get that everywhere!

 

[RPI]

Its always the same out of Pad, full and standing vestibules in 1st class and coach A and B half empty because the Reading lot, most of whom seem to think they are something special, insist on standing at the London end so it saves then 6 milliseconds in exiting the station at Reading, they think they are so hard done by, i mean it must be awful having a fast train to pad every 5 or so minutes that whisks you at 125 mph at a price of about £11 a day worked out from an annual season ticket!

 

[Flamingo]

Its always the same out of Pad, full and standing vestibules in 1st class and coach A and B half empty because the Reading lot, most of whom seem to think they are something special, insist on standing at the London end so it saves then 6 milliseconds in exiting the station at Reading, they think they are so hard done by, i mean it must be awful having a fast train to pad every 5 or so minutes that whisks you at 125 mph at a price of about £11 a day worked out from an annual season ticket!

They do whinge loud and long, don't they?

 

[Starmill]

I'm utterly mystified that this problem even exists. I've never been to Paddington - nor Reading, but if one end of the train is overcrowded because everyone gets on there... there must be a crowd on the platform. If there is, WHY don't people walk back down the platform to where there is nobody waiting? Are they ALL so late that they don't have time to? Is there really a measurable difference in exit time at Paddington? The sheep effect? Or just sheer laziness?

 

[Flamingo]

I'm utterly mystified that this problem even exists. I've never been to Paddington - nor Reading, but if one end of the train is overcrowded because everyone gets on there... there must be a crowd on the platform. If there is, WHY don't people walk back down the platform to where there is nobody waiting? Are they ALL so late that they don't have time to? Is there really a measurable difference in exit time at Paddington? The sheep effect? Or just sheer laziness?

Both, I'm afraid. The "regulars" stand at the bar / end vestibules, and then the late comers either can't/won't push past them, or see everybody standing and think "The train must be crowded, all the media say that everybody has to stand on trains to Reading so it must be true".

There are evenings when I could pull my hair out trying to sort it out, and the level of abuse that I receive from the commuters is unbelievable. I regularly get accused of lying about the number of empty seats, I'm called a Hitler, Jobsworth (insert swearword of choice in front of it), told I have no idea what Customer Service is, asked how do I sleep at night, threatened with complaints that will have me out of a job, have everything from Health and Safety to the Human Rights act quoted at me, or just get the plain obstinate who say "You don't expect me to walk all the way down there!". Of course, I am the only guard that ever tells them to move, and it has never happened to them before - even if I shifted them out the night before, and the night before that.

Last week I had a new one, though, I had somebody in Coach A complaining that I always announce there are seats in it as "We like it down here, stop telling everybody there are seats here!" :roll:

 

[bb21]

I'm utterly mystified that this problem even exists. I've never been to Paddington - nor Reading, but if one end of the train is overcrowded because everyone gets on there... there must be a crowd on the platform. If there is, WHY don't people walk back down the platform to where there is nobody waiting? Are they ALL so late that they don't have time to? Is there really a measurable difference in exit time at Paddington? The sheep effect? Or just sheer laziness?

I think you have answered your own questions.

 

[sheff1]

I'm utterly mystified that this problem even exists.

Don't you realise that every second these very important people lose is a national disaster. Having worked in Reading for a couple of years some time back I know how important their time is. Being a mere northern numpty, I was quite content with a seat in the most westerly carriage when I went to and from Paddington.

 

[Nym]

Don't you realise that every second these very important people lose is a national disaster. Having worked in Reading for a couple of years some time back I know how important their time is. Being a mere northern numpty, I was quite content with a seat in the most westerly carriage when I went to and from Paddington.

It's not quite so extreme on my route into Euston but it's noticeable, lots of pax standing at the London end, but then there are a fair few who don't like having to cram on and stand up at the County end...

 

[jon0844]

I'm utterly mystified that this problem even exists. I've never been to Paddington - nor Reading, but if one end of the train is overcrowded because everyone gets on there... there must be a crowd on the platform. If there is, WHY don't people walk back down the platform to where there is nobody waiting?

I don't know - perhaps nobody does. But, when I used to get the fast trains at Finsbury Park (next stop Hatfield) - I'd laugh at the first 2-3 carriages being crush loaded, and get on coach 8 and have a choice of seats (along with the others boarding at Finsbury Park).

As I've said before, if people were standing in these coaches it was simply because they chose to, not because they had to.

Okay, so I don't often use these trains now, but do I really want people to work it out when they're seemingly happy to avoid walking down the train and stand all the way - thus ensuring my choice of seats? No way!

Last week I had a new one, though, I had somebody in Coach A complaining that I always announce there are seats in it as "We like it down here, stop telling everybody there are seats here!" :roll:

hehe - I can see that (see my comment above!)

Rather like not wanting the driver to tell people the train I am on is declassified...

 

[island]

Both, I'm afraid. The "regulars" stand at the bar / end vestibules, and then the late comers either can't/won't push past them, or see everybody standing and think "The train must be crowded, all the media say that everybody has to stand on trains to Reading so it must be true".

There are evenings when I could pull my hair out trying to sort it out, and the level of abuse that I receive from the commuters is unbelievable. I regularly get accused of lying about the number of empty seats, I'm called a Hitler, Jobsworth (insert swearword of choice in front of it), told I have no idea what Customer Service is, asked how do I sleep at night, threatened with complaints that will have me out of a job, have everything from Health and Safety to the Human Rights act quoted at me, or just get the plain obstinate who say "You don't expect me to walk all the way down there!". Of course, I am the only guard that ever tells them to move, and it has never happened to them before - even if I shifted them out the night before, and the night before that.

Last week I had a new one, though, I had somebody in Coach A complaining that I always announce there are seats in it as "We like it down here, stop telling everybody there are seats here!" :roll:

Clearly you need to camp yourself in the DVT and stop trying to be helpful

 

[Flamingo]

Clearly you need to camp yourself in the DVT and stop trying to be helpful

It has been delicately suggested by managers before now. But then I get the odd 1st class passenger who says Thanks for doing it, and it does mean a lot. It is providing customer service to 1st class, and to Std class, as some std class passengers genuinely don't know seats are available, and I know a few who have altered their behaviour and now admit they have a more comfortable and stress-free journey.

 

[cuccir]

Are there any signs at Reading station telling people that the trains are like this? It might make your life a lot simpler if there was an 'A board' that could be put up in the peak period suggesting that people move along the platform...

 

[AlexS]

Leicester had a very naughty habit of doing this, especially with HSTs, although recently things seem to have improved much. I have not heard one incorrect formation advice for a good couple of months.

CIS isn't managed by stations with EMT generally speaking - there's a CIS Control in the EMCC that do it. Consequently, as they can't physically see the trains, they know which way round they *should* be, but this doesn't take account of unexpected diversions/late set swaps etc. Therefore the screens can be displaying the wrong formation, but standing instructions are for train managers or platform staff to contact them if this is the case and it will be corrected across the system for that particular unit's diagram. It's generally pretty reliable now, and any wrong formations that do arise tend to be sorted out fairly quickly at the start of service, and provided there's not a set swap/reversal should remain correct throughout the diagram.

 

[igloo]

I'm utterly mystified that this problem even exists. I've never been to Paddington - nor Reading, but if one end of the train is overcrowded because everyone gets on there... there must be a crowd on the platform. If there is, WHY don't people walk back down the platform to where there is nobody waiting? Are they ALL so late that they don't have time to?

At Paddington, the train will be sitting in the platform for some time (listed as "Preparing" in the screens, I think) before it is announced which platform it will be. When the platform is announced, you get a swarm of people approaching from the London end, where the departures info is.

 

[island]

The sensible people will of course have looked up the platform on an app or other site and be there already

 

[Tibbs]

At Paddington, the train will be sitting in the platform for some time (listed as "Preparing" in the screens, I think) before it is announced which platform it will be. When the platform is announced, you get a swarm of people approaching from the London end, where the departures info is.

I don't walk very fast at the moment, and certainly on the rush hour trains out of Euston in the evening I wouldn't back myself to make it to the quiet far end of a 12 car train in Euston before it leaves, given the amount of time sometimes between announcement and departure time (see prior thread).

Once on one of these busy trains, I wouldn't fancy pushing through the crowds to the quiet bit, especially on the 3+2 green seated sections given the small amount of space between the seats and my big belly.

 

[reb0118]

Both, I'm afraid. The "regulars" stand at the bar / end vestibules, and then the late comers either can't/won't push past them, or see everybody standing and think "The train must be crowded, all the media say that everybody has to stand on trains to Reading so it must be true".

There are evenings when I could pull my hair out trying to sort it out, and the level of abuse that I receive from the commuters is unbelievable. I regularly get accused of lying about the number of empty seats, I'm called a Hitler, Jobsworth (insert swearword of choice in front of it), told I have no idea what Customer Service is, asked how do I sleep at night, threatened with complaints that will have me out of a job, have everything from Health and Safety to the Human Rights act quoted at me, or just get the plain obstinate who say "You don't expect me to walk all the way down there!". Of course, I am the only guard that ever tells them to move, and it has never happened to them before - even if I shifted them out the night before, and the night before that.

We have a few trains like that on the E&G route. Today I had 27 people standing in STD and funnily enough 27 free seats in STD. There is one passenger in particular who makes a bee line for the 1st at the front - he states that "I'm just being helpful by not blocking the vestibule area"

Last week I had a new one, though, I had somebody in Coach A complaining that I always announce there are seats in it as "We like it down here, stop telling everybody there are seats here!" :roll:

Like it!

 

[jon0844]

When a 12-car train is announced at a major terminal, I wonder if the train should start with only the first four coaches unlocked - then the next 4 and then, finally, the 4 nearest the platform entrance only a few minutes before departure!

That would spread the load (while annoying those who want their particular seat!).

 

[bb21]

When a 12-car train is announced at a major terminal, I wonder if the train should start with only the first four coaches unlocked - then the next 4 and then, finally, the 4 nearest the platform entrance only a few minutes before departure!

That would spread the load (while annoying those who want their particular seat!).

Then after a while, people will catch up on it and realise that if they just waited at the rear of the train they will eventually get a seat there.

Far better to just unlock the front 4 coaches only. (I know this isn't going to happen. )

 

[island]

When a 12-car train is announced at a major terminal, I wonder if the train should start with only the first four coaches unlocked - then the next 4 and then, finally, the 4 nearest the platform entrance only a few minutes before departure!

That would spread the load (while annoying those who want their particular seat!).

Sometimes they have this on the HEX, where the onboard managers stand at the back and direct people to the front unit until 5 minutes before departure.

 

[Starmill]

It has been delicately suggested by managers before now. But then I get the odd 1st class passenger who says Thanks for doing it, and it does mean a lot. It is providing customer service to 1st class, and to Std class, as some std class passengers genuinely don't know seats are available, and I know a few who have altered their behaviour and now admit they have a more comfortable and stress-free journey.

Pah. I've been on enough trains "up North" where the guard just sits in the rear cab and does nada. I can understand it if the train is busy and he/she's doing announcements - but no tickets checked and NO announcements? Can this be ought but laziness?

Go for it!

I must add that it is sometimes impossible to walk the aisle of a 3+2 seated train - even if there are none standing. Those seats can be a bit close for comfort. Shouldn't imagine this is a problem on a HST though.

 

[AndyLandy]

Pah. I've been on enough trains "up North" where the guard just sits in the rear cab and does nada. I can understand it if the train is busy and he/she's doing announcements - but no tickets checked and NO announcements? Can this be ought but laziness?

Guard duties are primarily to do with running the train safely, so they will open and close doors and signal when it's safe for the train to leave the platform. Announcements and revenue collection are very much secondary duties for some guards.

 

[reb0118]

Pah...............I can understand it if the train is busy and he/she's doing announcements - but no tickets checked and NO announcements? Can this be ought but laziness?

I've been on a very busy train (single 158 short formed) so had to remain at the back (until the pax numbers thinned out). The feedback from the PA was chronic (& I mean chronic! ) so I decided not to use it.

Any passenger who did not see me patrol the train prior to their stop but also
who boarded after my initial attempt to broadcast information via the PA might think that I was a right lazy sod..............

 

[Starmill]

I've been on a very busy train (single 158 short formed) so had to remain at the back (until the pax numbers thinned out). The feedback from the PA was chronic (& I mean chronic! ) so I decided not to use it.

Any passenger who did not see me patrol the train prior to their stop but also
who boarded after my initial attempt to broadcast information via the PA might think that I was a right lazy sod..............

Unless I am going crazy... don't 185s have automatic announcements?

Although, I seem to recall people complaining they were too frequent and now they don't say as much anymore.

Of course I realise these are not the primary duties of a guard - but under most circumstances a lot of them do manage it those safety critical tasks and revenue/announcements too!

 

[ainsworth74]

Unless I am going crazy... don't 185s have automatic announcements?

Look again a bit closer

I've been on a very busy train (single 158 short formed)

Surely one of the only classes where swapping the last two numbers can have such a dramatic impact!

 

[Eagle]

Look again a bit closer

But Scotrail's 158s also have automated announcements. :P

 

[ainsworth74]

But Scotrail's 158s also have automated announcements.

They do? Never heard them before!

Admittedly my sample size is only a few units.

 

[Eagle]

They do? Never heard them before!

Admittedly my sample size is only a few units.

They're identical to the ones on their 170s.

 

[Starmill]

Oops, haha!

I didn't realise we were talking about scotrail, or I might've twigged!

As you can see, I must have TPE on my brain.

 

[reb0118]

But Scotrail's 158s also have automated announcements. :P

They do? Never heard them before!

Admittedly my sample size is only a few units.

Most Scotrail 158s do have auto announcers aka Sonic Shona! This 158 did as a matter of fact - it is mainly those ones that suffer from chronic feedback when you attempt to make a manual PA announcement. Remember that the auto announcement is just a generic one for that line of route - the conductor can & should add additional specific information for that particular train.

Some, ex Northern?, 158s that we use do not have auto announcements (we also have some Wales & Borders and Wessex ones with their own brand of auto announcing!).

Anyway with regard to ticket checks & announcing I have decided not to bother tomorrow as hopefully the last guard will have checked all the pax on..............














..........................Well it is the sleeper - I don't think you would like to be woken at 04:40 with my dulcet tones over the PA - you may however have wanted your ticket checked when you discover yourself being gently woken at Aberdeen when you wished to alight at Inverkeithing!

Note to sleepy heads: 1) If you want a wake up call let the staff know, 2) If you move seats in the night let the staff know, & 3) don't remove your seat label and use it as a bookmark.