Is there going to be a UK train ticket redesign?

[whhistle]

Yes, the text and wording on the tickets is due to change and is a much welcomed improvement.

The actual ticket cards will stay the same.

I did see a briefing sheet with pictures about this but I don't know where it is now. Will try to find.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Wikipedia is your friend :P

Also, don't some LO ticket machines use stock with both the double arrow and roundel on it?

Yes. Even confused a Rotala bus driver with it because I had purchased a plusbus on one

 

[swt_passenger]

(And is indistinguishable from legs which are reservable but with no seat reservations, like the coach * seat *** you get on SWT and LM.)

A simple improvement for those would be to replace the asterisks with the word 'Any'. Asterisks probably imply to many passengers that the system is broken at the time of printing...

Another simple idea would be to suppress the 'A' for 'Airline' on rolling stock with individual seat numbering. Now and again I see people on XC services looking for seat 'xx A' when they are in full view of seat 'xx'...

 

[AndyLandy]

Another simple idea would be to suppress the 'A' for 'Airline' on rolling stock with individual seat numbering. Now and again I see people on XC services looking for seat 'xx A' when they are in full view of seat 'xx'...

That's a particular bugbear of mine. I was travelling on a Pendolino and had a reservation for an aisle seat (Can't remember the exact number, think it was 19) and there was a woman in my seat. I told her she was in my seat, but she swore blind it was her seat. Her reservation coupon was for the adjacent window seat (Let's call it 18) but because the ticket said B 18A, she was adamant that the 'A' meant the aisle seat and she wouldn't budge.

After trying two or three times trying to explain this, I gave up and found a seat elsewhere. (The train was fairly busy, but not completely full)

 

[Eagle]

After trying two or three times trying to explain this, I gave up and found a seat elsewhere.

Window seat 18 would have been free :P

I don't see how she could have failed to comprehend the little sticker that says "18 window / 19 aisle" alongside the pair of seats...

 

[AndyLandy]

Window seat 18 would have been free :P

It was, but I wasn't sure I wanted to sit next to her after this debacle, and I'd actively specified an aisle seat when booking.

I don't see how she could have failed to comprehend the little sticker that says "18 window / 19 aisle" alongside the pair of seats...

Indeed, it seems pretty obvious to me, too. That said, it's quite possible she was being deliberately belligerent because she wanted the aisle seat.

 

[amcluesent]

They should do tickets with a QR code so you can see all the T&C info by scanning with a smartphone. My eyes aren't what they were and the text on the iPhone is much clearer. Current ticketing seems to be designed to enable RPIs to cadge money off confused pax.

 

[island]

From Jan 2013 advance tickets will have all of the reservation details all on the actual ticket! good idea but just how this works in practice when you have a multi leg journey I don't know!

Really? I trust you of course but is there anything public?

I've never heard of these before, but googling reveals very little, is this what you're talking about?

I understand LUL uses five different kinds of stock to help discover where the ticket was printed and detect improper use.

The date and time of issue is printed at the bottom of every ticket I issue and I imagine that is common for all users of FasTis, if not other machines. The problem with putting the three letter code for the issuing station on the ticket is that, afaik, not all tickets are issued at stations (though those issued on the day of travel would be). Also, some of the codes are not that obvious (WAE, SLD, HLN, BKQ, etc).

Isn't the NLC of issue printed on the ticket as well?

A simple improvement for those would be to replace the asterisks with the word 'Any'. Asterisks probably imply to many passengers that the system is broken at the time of printing...

Another simple idea would be to suppress the 'A' for 'Airline' on rolling stock with individual seat numbering. Now and again I see people on XC services looking for seat 'xx A' when they are in full view of seat 'xx'...

That is starting to happen.

 

[jon0844]

Now, that I like!!!!!

With flexible OLED displays coming, and existing eInk screens, you really could see displays on the floor, the windows of trains and other panels and surfaces in the not too distant future. Extremely low power and with endless possibilities, and no doubt advertising eventually.

I rather hope it would say 'Only valid with 16-25 Railcard', thus making it blindingly obvious to even the most stubborn of people that you need to have a 16-25 Railcard with you to use the ticket.

Best say 'Only valid with valid 16-25 Railcard' too, for those who think an expired card is okay. And then add that it needs to be YOUR railcard...

 

[dzug2]

That would be so annoying tho having to carry coins around. I'm waiting for the day they get rid of tickets and they are all on your phone or contact less credit card.

The problem with that is that you are making phone and credit card ownershop mandatory to travel

 

[Goatboy]

I'm waiting for the day they get rid of tickets and they are all on your phone or contact less credit card.

I'm not.

I'm a huge technology-fiend and never go anywhere without a decent smartphone but there is simply no way I would want to rely on it for my travel tickets - battery life is simply not sufficient for this to be comfortable.

A paper ticket works and is never out of battery.

Currently if my phone runs out of power then, well, no more web browsing. Which is a lot less of an issue than potentially being done for not having a ticket.

 

[Starmill]

I'm not.

I'm a huge technology-fiend and never go anywhere without a decent smartphone but there is simply no way I would want to rely on it for my travel tickets - battery life is simply not sufficient for this to be comfortable.

A paper ticket works and is never out of battery.

Currently if my phone runs out of power then, well, no more web browsing. Which is a lot less of an issue than potentially being done for not having a ticket.

Imagine the wave of excuses they'd have to put up with?
"I'm out of battery!"
"I've not got a good 3g signal!"
"I've leant my phone to someone else!"
"I've lost my phone!"
"I can't break off this very important phone call to show you!"

and so on.

Never gonna happen

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Isn't the NLC of issue printed on the ticket as well?....

Yes, but as Eagle mentioned this I didn't.

....Best say 'Only valid with valid 16-25 Railcard' too, for those who think an expired card is okay. And then add that it needs to be YOUR railcard...

That's a good point, do we have room for 'Only valid with an in-date, signed and unaltered 16-25 Railcard that has your name on it and, where issued by a station ticket office, is accompanied by a valid 16-25 photocard which contains your name, date of birth and a picture of you, and has the same photocard number as is printed on the Railcard'?

Imagine the wave of excuses they'd have to put up with?
"I'm out of battery!"
"I've not got a good 3g signal!"
"I've leant my phone to someone else!"
"I've lost my phone!"
"I can't break off this very important phone call to show you!"

None of which would be acceptable.

 

[Eagle]

That's a good point, do we have room for 'Only valid with an in-date, signed and unaltered 16-25 Railcard that has your name on it and, where issued by a station ticket office, is accompanied by a valid 16-25 photocard which contains your name, date of birth and a picture of you, and has the same photocard number as is printed on the Railcard'?

My railcard doesn't have my date of birth on it, does that mean I can't use it?

 

[transmanche]

I understand LUL uses five different kinds of stock to help discover where the ticket was printed and detect improper use.

They certainly used to use tickets with different coloured triangles for different parts of London (yellow = west, red = north, green = east,
blue = south, and central = no triangle). I don't know if they still do this, it's been years since I bought a paper ticket!

 

[jon0844]

Even if you wrote all that people would still say they didn't know and moan!

 

[AndyLandy]

Do we have room for 'Only valid with an in-date, signed and unaltered 16-25 Railcard that has your name on it and, where issued by a station ticket office, is accompanied by a valid 16-25 photocard which contains your name, date of birth and a picture of you, and has the same photocard number as is printed on the Railcard'?

I think you could get away with requiring a "Valid 16-25 Railcard" and defining "validity" as those things you've listed above.

None of which would be acceptable.

I quite agree, none of those excuses should be acceptable. As such I would never trust my phone for use as an e-ticket, far too much could go wrong. I'd far rather have a bit of cardboard that I can put somewhere safe and know that I can prove I've paid for my journey.

 

[wh1]

Doubt they will, its heading to wards e-tickets anyway so its pointless spending money on changing the current paper tickets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Now, that I like!!!!!


Source: http://www.wallacehenning.com/national-network/

Thank you for your kind comments!

 

[HSTEd]

There is no need for flexible OLEDs to implement platform edge signage like that shown above, LCD screens are so cheap now that many stations could have them implemented at little expense.
Someone I know and I started sketchign out how you would actually deploy them from a technical point of view.
Most important thing is a very accurate method of determining where the train has stopped.

Outdoor screens might require very bright LCDs or eInk displays in the short term which is depressing.

 

[jon0844]

OLED doesn't need any backlighting and would be far thinner than putting an LCD screen in a platform. The flexible bit is pretty irrelevant for a solid, non-moving, object but they can be installed elsewhere where things might flex.

OLED also has the advantage of being totally invisible when not in use. I could imagine that, on platforms where doors are always in a set position, you could install an OLED 'screen' on the ground with a non-slip surface coating, then hold it in place by surrounding yellow lines (constructed of metal or similar) that are always visible even if the power/screen fails.

Similar, but not identical, to the image.

The screen can also tell people to mind gaps in an animated/flashing form, or tell people to stand aside and let people alight before boarding. As well as showing the next train/stopping pattern before the train arrives (I'd turn that off when it has arrived to stop people actually standing in front of the doors to read it!).

I just know that advertising would creep in at some stage!

 

[HSTEd]

OLED doesn't need any backlighting and would be far thinner than putting an LCD screen in a platform. The flexible bit is pretty irrelevant for a solid, non-moving, object but they can be installed elsewhere where things might flex.

LCD screens are suprisingly thin these days, I have a laptop panel here (cracked but nvm) that is only a few millimetres thick, LED screens are even thinner but I am not sure this is a major benefit considering the far greater cost of OLEDs.
You would have to dig a centimetre into the platform surface anyway in order to fit cabling and some sort of glass/perspex top cover anyway.

OLED also has the advantage of being totally invisible when not in use. I could imagine that, on platforms where doors are always in a set position, you could install an OLED 'screen' on the ground with a non-slip surface coating, then hold it in place by surrounding yellow lines (constructed of metal or similar) that are always visible even if the power/screen fails.

Similar, but not identical, to the image.

I was imagining a continuous array of LCD screens placed end to end, but I would very worried about fitting the OLEDs right onto the surface of the platform with nothing but a non slip coating.

I have seen how staff often handle catering trolleys and other heavy bits of kit and I would be rather worried that one would drop on the panel and damage it, even flexible OLED displays can only take so much punishment.

The screen can also tell people to mind gaps in an animated/flashing form, or tell people to stand aside and let people alight before boarding. As well as showing the next train/stopping pattern before the train arrives (I'd turn that off when it has arrived to stop people actually standing in front of the doors to read it!).

I just know that advertising would creep in at some stage!

I was imagining news tickers on the platform edge and all sorts of fun things.

 

[jon0844]

The screens I've seen from Samsung can be folded, so I think they'd be pretty strong. They won't be flexing much anyway, and would be under a protective screen - just as an LCD would.

I just don't see an LCD panel being as well suited as OLED. The best screens at stations are the amber LED ones, not colour screens, and yet OLED can still do the full colour images if needed. The immense (infinite) contrast ratio is the real bonus here.

Alternatively, if you had grey/white platforms instead of black, then you could have a light background and put on an eInk display that would be only black/white (although colour is coming) and have virtually no power consumption, with the added benefit of being able to show a static image when not switched on.

I have no idea how OLED or eInk copes in extreme temperatures though, and eInk might be more likely to fail - or freeze with pixels on/off incorrectly. I can see it working on board trains/planes and in retail. Supermarkets have trialled LCD price tags on shelving but they each need their own power source.

eInk could reduce this immensely - only needing power when changing the price/product info. You could even provide the power from the terminal programming the tag.

Anyway - let's get the tickets redesigned first. Although knowing ATOC, we'll have the platform screens installed and getting old before this actually happens

 

[tankmc]

The screens I've seen from Samsung can be folded, so I think they'd be pretty strong. They won't be flexing much anyway, and would be under a protective screen - just as an LCD would.

I just don't see an LCD panel being as well suited as OLED. The best screens at stations are the amber LED ones, not colour screens, and yet OLED can still do the full colour images if needed. The immense (infinite) contrast ratio is the real bonus here.

Alternatively, if you had grey/white platforms instead of black, then you could have a light background and put on an eInk display that would be only black/white (although colour is coming) and have virtually no power consumption, with the added benefit of being able to show a static image when not switched on.

I have no idea how OLED or eInk copes in extreme temperatures though, and eInk might be more likely to fail - or freeze with pixels on/off incorrectly. I can see it working on board trains/planes and in retail. Supermarkets have trialled LCD price tags on shelving but they each need their own power source.

eInk could reduce this immensely - only needing power when changing the price/product info. You could even provide the power from the terminal programming the tag.

Anyway - let's get the tickets redesigned first. Although knowing ATOC, we'll have the platform screens installed and getting old before this actually happens

Lol some stations are still waiting for info screen!

 

[HSTEd]

I keep thinking about all the great things we could have on the railway if existing technology was employed more... and the I think about something called a "Modernisation Plan"....

 

[t o m]

How about this A4 sized ticket, definitely doesn't fit in ticket barriers!

 

[DiscoStu]

Confusing? This is the stock excuse people come out with when they haven't bothered reading the Ts and Cs.

I hope they don't change the ticket design its iconic!

Is it really iconic?

I find it strange that a train ticket style could be seen as iconic. I'd guess the only people who would see it that way are enthusiasts?

A ticket is a ticket as far as I'm concerned - I couldn't care less what it looks like.

 

[tsr]

Lol some stations are still waiting for info screen!

Most of those stations are surely those ones which see fairly low usage numbers, though? When their help-points are replaced (and this is perhaps likely to be reasonably soon, looking at their various poor conditions), I suppose they may well get the new ones with built-in information displays.

 

[jon0844]

How about this A4 sized ticket, definitely doesn't fit in ticket barriers!

And doesn't seem to have any more information than a credit card ticket!

I think we need to keep credit card sized tickets for the obvious reason that they fit in a wallet/holder. But, many tickets are now bigger than this - from tickets you get to gigs/cinemas etc, to bus tickets that are squarer.

Of course, credit card sized tickets will stay regardless simply because of the need to replace all ticket readers - which isn't going to happen. However, I've shown in other threads that with most printers now being able to print anything on a ticket - there's scope to resize text, reduce line spacing and do a lot more - like include QR Codes to allow staff or passengers to get additional information.

I'm quite looking forward to seeing what these modified tickets will look like, and hope I won't be going 'Is that it?' or 'Argh, that's even worse!'.

 

[Eagle]

I think we need to keep credit card sized tickets for the obvious reason that they fit in a wallet/holder. But, many tickets are now bigger than this - from tickets you get to gigs/cinemas etc, to bus tickets that are squarer.

Most tickets I get on buses (the kind printed on thermal till-rolls) are considerably smaller than credit-card size. An exception is NX Coventry, who still use the long tickertape-style tickets. Until recently, the length of the ticket was proportional to its cost, presumably to help counting up at the end of the day, although now it seems to just be one size for singles and one for day tickets.

 

[tsr]

Will all tickets for Southern now have "or £0 with your inevitable Delay Repay form" printed by the price?