Reserved seats not being used (not a fares question)

[D2022]

In my time travelling the HSTs around the FGW area it seems people are more than disappointed to look into a HST and see seats reserved on a crowded train, despite the reservation not being for that leg or having not been used at all.

Am I right in thinking TOCs should maybe tell people to check the reservation detail to see iof iot being used and can be sat in?

I'm on a Swindon - Bath service at the moment and have had many people walk right past reserved seats, one even commented how its wrong FGW don't let you have a seat just so some one can reserve it.

 

[VP185]

I would have thought it would be common sense to check them in all honesty. The majority of passengers seemingly leave their common sense at the station entrance and need to be told or shown everything.

 

[LE Greys]

Some East Coast guards are very good at removing labels from empty seats - although that can be annoying if you've just gone to the buffet.

 

[Greenback]

Am I right in thinking TOCs should maybe tell people to check the reservation detail to see iof iot being used and can be sat in?

Do TOC's really need to tell people this? Does this show how far we have gone of people not being able to thing for themselves?

Is the education system to blame?

Seriously, some people do avoid reserved seats as they feel embarrassed to eb asked to move. Then again, those types of people tend not to comment on reservations publicly!

I'm on a Swindon - Bath service at the moment and have had many people walk right past reserved seats, one even commented how its wrong FGW don't let you have a seat just so some one can reserve it.

For pity's sake. It's an empty seat. Sit in it, but be prepared to move with good grace if/when the person shows up! Honestly, I am close to despair!

 

[Flamingo]

Leaving London, I always announce "If the seat is reserved from London and is empty, they haven't turned up so it's free to sit on it!". When walking through checking tickes, I'll pull out any I see that are now void.

I don't see what else can be done, and I do rate going through pulling out seat reservations where nobody has sat in the seat as rather low down my list of priorities. Sunday afternoon trains are about the only ones where I make a special point of doing it. Weekday commuters are a harder-nosed bunch, and will sit if they want to and a seat is available nearby.

 

[wintonian]

I think part of the problem sometimes is passenger not realising that the great big long HST they are getting onto has more than 1 coach, I think a lot of them just see that no. 23 matches the number on the reservation and sit there without second thought.

Of course others don't seem to realise that they have a reservation for specific seat and can't see the reservation labels due to poor eye sight (one presumes) and take the first set of seats that take there fancy - would they do this on an aircraft or concert hall I wonder?

On top of that there are the ones that don't seem to be aware of how the 24hr clock works and seem to think 16:30 means half five or even half six.

 

[Oswyntail]

Is there - or did there used to be - a rule that a reserved seat unoccupied after ten minutes from the named start station can be occupied and does not have to be given up, even if the person with the reservation turns up?

 

[wintonian]

Is there - or did there used to be - a rule that a reserved seat unoccupied after ten minutes from the named start station can be occupied and does not have to be given up, even if the person with the reservation turns up?

There was something like that but it might have been TOC specific?

 

[ffm]

If people haven't the sense to look at the reservation slips then so be it, let them stand.

 

[Flamingo]

Is there - or did there used to be - a rule that a reserved seat unoccupied after ten minutes from the named start station can be occupied and does not have to be given up, even if the person with the reservation turns up?

I've never seen anything in writing, I use a "reasonable period", if everyone has obviously stopped looking for seats then it's fair game to pull the reservation out IMHO.

 

[themiller]

The last time I was in London (about a month ago), I decided to return home to Cumbria early due to the wet weather. I duly went to the customer service desk in Euston where I asked about the validity of my ticket on the chosen train to be told "jet get on anywhere - it's free seating". I offered my reservation coupons for the later train to be told that they didn't want them. This means that the later train would have left with reserved seats that had no chance of being claimed! I tried but Virgin couldn't cope with a seat reservation cancellation. I would suspect that this all be repeated on other TOCs.

 

[Greenback]

Is there - or did there used to be - a rule that a reserved seat unoccupied after ten minutes from the named start station can be occupied and does not have to be given up, even if the person with the reservation turns up?

No, I believe that this is a sort of an urban myth that has spread by word of mouth.

It's possible that some overseas railways may have such a rule, and that that is where it has come from.

 

[pjnathanail]

The last time I was in London (about a month ago), I decided to return home to Cumbria early due to the wet weather. I duly went to the customer service desk in Euston where I asked about the validity of my ticket on the chosen train to be told "jet get on anywhere - it's free seating". I offered my reservation coupons for the later train to be told that they didn't want them. This means that the later train would have left with reserved seats that had no chance of being claimed! I tried but Virgin couldn't cope with a seat reservation cancellation. I would suspect that this all be repeated on other TOCs.

I find it very hard to cancell or change reservations, especially if I have a long journey. Where can it be done?!!

 

[northwichcat]

Imagine you're making a Manchester-Edinburgh via York journey and you've got seat reservations for a Manchester-Leeds leg with TPE and for Leeds-Edinburgh with XC and that there's an 11 minute connection time. The train is expected in Leeds 6 minutes late and the guard recommends you change at York instead as that'll give you a better chance of getting your intended onward service. You do this and make the Edinburgh train at York, what should happen then if you seat is occupied by someone else?

 

[Goatboy]

Perhaps they've been scared off by an experience on CrossCountry?

I sat in a Leeds to Bristol seat at Bristol Parkway and then got turfed out at Temple Meads where it magically changefd into a Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance seat

 

[leedstraindude]

Perhaps they've been scared off by an experience on CrossCountry?

I sat in a Leeds to Bristol seat at Bristol Parkway and then got turfed out at Temple Meads where it magically changefd into a Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance seat

Seats can be reserved multiple times on a journey. XC are in the process of extending the 10 minute reservation as can be seen on the displays on several trains now where pretty much every seat says "Available, but reservable on route"

 

[Simon11]

All Voyagers and HST now have these displays!

 

[Goatboy]

Seats can be reserved multiple times on a journey.

Of course, nobody disputes this.

What is ridiculous of course is that a passenger who boards an XC service at Birmingham travelling to Exeter and finds a seat reserved from Leeds to Cheltenham which has not been used has absolutely no idea whether they will be turfed out of the unoccupied seat when it magically changes into a Cheltenham to Penzance reservation at Cheltenham.

With paper reservation tickets this is obvious - you can see the reservation status of the seat for its entire journey and decide if you can sit in it.

Crosscountry reservation systems do not permit this. It is a farce. Would it really be that difficult to scroll both sets of reservations or something? Or to have designed more fit for purpose LED screens in the first place capable of showing the seats status for the entire journey?

 

[Simon11]

If you really want to have a seat without worrying, why not send a text 10 minutes in advance and reserve your own seat for your train? This has to be a better system than paper tickets and gives the opportunity for walkup passengers to reserve a seat.

In order to make your reservation, simply send a text message with the text code for the appropriate train t o88008, using the three letter station code for each station. For example, if you wish to make a reservation in Standard on the 0800 Bristol to Cheltenham service, please text 'TMR BRI CNM 0800'. If you would like to make a Ten minute reservation in First Class on the 0757 Birmingham to Manchester service, please text 'TMR BHM MAN 0757 1ST'.

With regards to your idea of displaying the two reservations, this would be really bad. It would take forever for someone to read every screen until they get to a seat. It would be better for the reservations to be merged together if they are side by side! So with your example, it would say "Reserved from Leeds to Penzance"

 

[wintonian]

If you really want to have a seat without worrying, why not send a text 10 minutes in advance and reserve your own seat for your train? This has to be a better system than paper tickets and gives the opportunity for walkup passengers to reserve a seat.

In order to make your reservation, simply send a text message with the text code for the appropriate train t o88008, using the three letter station code for each station. For example, if you wish to make a reservation in Standard on the 0800 Bristol to Cheltenham service, please text 'TMR BRI CNM 0800'. If you would like to make a Ten minute reservation in First Class on the 0757 Birmingham to Manchester service, please text 'TMR BHM MAN 0757 1ST'.

And if someone is already sitting in the resulting seat when you start texting you politely ask them to move as you have reserved the seat - right?

 

[Zoe]

I seem to remember reading about the possibility of short notice seat reservations when Virgin first introduced the electronic reservation system. At the time I believe it was suggested that the guard would mark unoccupied seats as available for reservation and so if you were already sitting in the seat then it wouldn't be made available. If there was a way of preventing the seat from becoming reserved once you sit in it then there shouldn't be any issue with ten minute reservations.

 

[Goatboy]

In order to make your reservation, simply send a text message with the text code for the appropriate train t o88008, using the three letter station code for each station. For example, if you wish to make a reservation in Standard on the 0800 Bristol to Cheltenham service, please text 'TMR BRI CNM 0800'. If you would like to make a Ten minute reservation in First Class on the 0757 Birmingham to Manchester service, please text 'TMR BHM MAN 0757 1ST'.

I had absolutely no idea you could even do this. Surely somebody has to verify you have a ticket or something? If you can do this, great.

With regards to your idea of displaying the two reservations, this would be really bad. It would take forever for someone to read every screen until they get to a seat. It would be better for the reservations to be merged together if they are side by side! So with your example, it would say "Reserved from Leeds to Penzance"

So the answer then is that paper reservations are better than digital ones.

If I board a Paddington to Swansea service at Reading I can see at a 10 second glance whether an unoccupied seat reserved from Paddington to Bristol is subsequently also reserved from Bristol to Swansea, for example.

Merging reservations together also sounds sensible.

 

[Eagle]

Seats can be reserved multiple times on a journey. XC are in the process of extending the 10 minute reservation as can be seen on the displays on several trains now where pretty much every seat says "Available, but reservable on route"

Actually the text used is a lot longer than that from what I've seen: it's "Available, but may be reserved en route between Bournemouth and Manchester Piccadilly", which takes approximately six months to scroll across the screen.

 

[Simon11]

I had absolutely no idea you could even do this. Surely somebody has to verify you have a ticket or something? If you can do this, great.



So the answer then is that paper reservations are better than digital ones.

If I board a Paddington to Swansea service at Reading I can see at a 10 second glance whether an unoccupied seat reserved from Paddington to Bristol is subsequently also reserved from Bristol to Swansea, for example.

Merging reservations together also sounds sensible.

Give it ago, next time you travel on XC services. I've texted numerous times and never had an issues with not getting the seat however the seat screen may not update to have your reservation.
Train Managers have limited time and they shouldn't have to be putting in paper reservations. While it may have its bad points, I think there are great benefits from the technology!

 

[jopsuk]

The biggest problem with the electronic reservation system is that the screens are not large and clear enough.

If they had screens the size of a low end smart phone screen (one per pair), in full colour, at a decent resolution, they could display far clearer information and it might be much more obvious glancing down a carriage where you can sit.

 

[Crossover]

I was once travelling from Scarborough to Manchester Piccadilly on a TPE working and was sat behind an older lady. The seat next to her was reserved (she was reserved on the aisle) andwas guarding it with her life. The train was heavily loaded and I think it was at either York or Leeds, there was someone trying to find a seat, saw that empty and made a beeline only to be stopped by her saying it was reserved.

I looked later and found the seat was reserved only from Scarborough (or Seamer, I forget) to York, so it was free by this point anyway.

To be honest, I did come to the conclusion at the time that these people should worry about just themselves and not try to police the train when they have no idea what they are doing :P

 

[Flamingo]

I was once travelling from Scarborough to Manchester Piccadilly on a TPE working and was sat behind an older lady. The seat next to her was reserved (she was reserved on the aisle) andwas guarding it with her life. The train was heavily loaded and I think it was at either York or Leeds, there was someone trying to find a seat, saw that empty and made a beeline only to be stopped by her saying it was reserved.

I looked later and found the seat was reserved only from Scarborough (or Seamer, I forget) to York, so it was free by this point anyway.

To be honest, I did come to the conclusion at the time that these people should worry about just themselves and not try to police the train when they have no idea what they are doing :P

Little old ladies are amongst the worst for hogging two seats to themselves, under any pretext...

 

[Goatboy]

While it may have its bad points, I think there are great benefits from the technology!

I think its a step too far technology wise. If you board a train and find a seat that isn't reserved you should be able to be confident its your seat until you get off. The more XC extend this automated booking thing, the less likely this is to be the case.

But of course it's a uniquely XC answer to a problem of its own making. Presumably the reason they perceived there was passenger demand for being able to book a seat 10 minutes before the train leaves is because people were concerned about never being able to find a seat on XC. So rather than sort the issue of using 4 car DMU's on services from Scotland to the Westcountry they instead introduce a system that allows you to turf people out of seats by text message

Infact that'd work. Board train. No seats. Send text. Kick passenger out of your now reserved seat once train arrives at next station..

 

[ValleyLines142]

In order to make your reservation, simply send a text message with the text code for the appropriate train t o88008, using the three letter station code for each station. For example, if you wish to make a reservation in Standard on the 0800 Bristol to Cheltenham service, please text 'TMR BRI CNM 0800'. If you would like to make a Ten minute reservation in First Class on the 0757 Birmingham to Manchester service, please text 'TMR BHM MAN 0757 1ST'.

That's a really good idea! I often get the 2015 Bristol to Cardiff service, usually very last minute, so at 2005 say (or before I guess?) I can now make a reservation!

What would be the case for more than one person travelling? Would it be something like 'TMR BRI CDF 2015 x 2' or something? If you did them seperately you could have one person in A23 and then the companion in D46 or something!!

 

[yorksrob]

While it may have its bad points, I think there are great benefits from the technology!

I think it's a darned nuisence personally. If someone can't organise a seat reservation the day before, I don't see why they should have the right to turf me out en route.