Signal upgrade for North Wales main line

[merlodlliw]

I was reading in yesterdays local regional paper the Daily Post that signalling upgrades for the North Wales main line will start in 2015,

from page three Daily Post North East Wales edition dated 18th October, article not put on the Daily Post web pages

" The Welsh Secretary was responding to a call from the Aberconwy M.P. Gutto Bebb.
Welsh Secretary David Jones said he had met with Network Rail who told him the line was to be re-signalled from 2015.

The Welsh Secretary further said he was holding discussions with Welsh Govt & North Wales local authorities with a view to exploring the possibility of electrifying the North Wales Railway line of 105 miles

Arfon M.P. Hywel Williams asked how much of the £9.4bn earmarked for rail infrastructure to 2019 would be spent in North Wales. Mr Williams it would be a great boost to the area,improving services and giving local businesses some of the help they need and deserve"

[/QUOTE]



I myself wonder where the 105 miles would start from? anyone have any idea,Holyhead to ?


Bob

 

[John55]

I was reading in yesterdays local regional paper the Daily Post that signalling upgrades for the North Wales main line will start in 2015, I have taken much of the article from page three Daily Post North East Wales edition dated 18th October, article not put on the Daily Post web pages

" The Welsh Secretary was responding to a call from the Aberconwy M.P. Gutto Bebb.
Welsh Secretary David Jones said he had met with Network Rail who told him the line was to be re-signalled from 2015.

The Welsh Secretary further said he was holding discussions with Welsh Govt & North Wales local authorities with a view to exploring the possibility of electrifying the North Wales Railway line of 105 miles

Arfon M.P. Hywel Williams asked how much of the £9.4bn earmarked for rail infrastructure to 2019 would be spent in North Wales. Mr Williams it would be a great boost to the area,improving services and giving local businesses some of the help they need and deserve"



I myself wonder where the 105 miles would start from? anyone have any idea,Holyhead to ?


Bob

Railmiles gives Holyhead to Crewe as 105m 39ch.

 

[merlodlliw]

Railmiles gives Holyhead to Crewe as 105m 39ch.

of course Crewe, I am so used to seeing the distance sign at Chester

Bob

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I was reading in yesterdays local regional paper the Daily Post that signalling upgrades for the North Wales main line will start in 2015,

Bob[/QUOTE]

It's a bit of a mystery what is actually planned.
The resignalling plan lists "North Wales East" for 2014 and "North Wales West" for 2020.
North Wales East includes Llandudno-Llandudno Jn-Rockliffe Hall.
Chester PSB area is also after 2019.
Our local boxes (Croes Newydd, Penyffordd, Dee Marsh) are not till 2025!

But I don't know what it means on the ground, except the intention is to signal everything from Cardiff (or possibly Manchester for the Chester area).
Nothing has been said about technology.
It might be a roll-out of the modular signalling going in on the Crewe-Shrewsbury line.

The CP5 (2014-19) plans for North Wales are very simple - nothing except a few station upgrades.
Maybe the updated NR CP5 plan in January (responding to the HLOS) will tell us more.

 

[The Informer]

"nothing except a few station upgrades"....

We'll see!

 

[merlodlliw]

"nothing except a few station upgrades"....

We'll see!

Fuller story printed in today's daily post,It appeared in both Welsh editions, link http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...ctrify-north-wales-rail-lines-55578-32060971/

Ministers agree to work on business case to electrify North Wales rail lines
by Tom Bodden, DPW WestOct 19 2012


WORK is to go ahead on developing a business case for the future electrification of the main North Wales rail lines.

Officials in Whitehall and Cardiff will jointly investigate proposals which could signal huge investment in links to Holyhead and from Wrexham via Bidston to Liverpool.

Welsh transport minister Carl Sargeant held talks with UK transport secretary Patrick McLoughlin in London yesterday.

Later he was positive about the meeting and the prospects for the combined drive to improve rail links and help to boost the North Wales economy.


“We are going to look at how we can create a business case for electrification in North Wales,”Mr Sargeant said.

“Work can start pretty much immediately although transport infrastructure programmes take a long time to come to fruition.

“In the meantime there is potential for new signalling and track developments which can help the case.”

Demands for the electrification of the North Wales rail line have previously failed because of the costs.

But Mr Sargeant insisted yesterday that there was now a lot more to the business case for such a project.

“We need to look at the environmental impacts, the cost of electrified stock, rising fuel costs, increased usage of services and procurement.

“A lot has changed.”

The Welsh Government had worked successfully with the previous Secretary of State for Transport to develop robust business cases for the electrification of the Great Western Main Line to Swansea, and the electrification of the South Wales Valley Lines as an important commuter network, he said

“Similarly, I want to see North Wales properly connected to the electrified rail network around Liverpool, which has the potential to bring benefits to the economy of the region and rail services.

“By boosting the economy, electrification will also help tackle poverty - one of my key priorities.”

The electrification of the network in North Wales could take advantage of the timing of Network Rail's plans for investment in signalling and renewals, Welsh Government planned investment, and as part of the next West Coast franchise.

“The West Coast franchise is a significant franchise serving North Wales and people that rely on that route do not want services being adversely affected as a result of the recent tender process.

“I support the current investigation into the franchise letting process.

“By working collaboratively we can ensure that the lessons learnt are taken forward and applied to the letting of the Wales and Borders Franchise in 2018.”

There was also a big Editors input in the centre(not webbed) in which she compares South Wales expenditures (Newport/Cardiff) with the North. But she states the Wrexham to Bidston line is single tracked, so gets a bit lost.

Bob

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Fuller story printed in today's daily post,It appeared in both Welsh editions, link http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...ctrify-north-wales-rail-lines-55578-32060971/
There was also a big Editors input in the centre(not webbed) in which she compares South Wales expenditures (Newport/Cardiff) with the North. But she states the Wrexham to Bidston line is single tracked, so gets a bit lost.
Bob

Very interesting. Looks like they are getting to grips with the business case.
The NW electrification scheme was costed at £200m when it was just Liverpool-Manchester-Preston, and is basically 75 miles of double track.
The minimum scheme for North Wales would be 125 miles (Warrington/Crewe to Holyhead) plus the Llandudno branch.
So that would be about £300m. Maybe the EU would fund some of it as an international route.
No doubt there would be lobbying to include Chester-Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton (75 miles or another £200m).
The scheme was not in the recent HLOS so it isn't going to happen in CP5.
I can understand doing the groundwork for a CP6 scheme (2019-24), but to me it is not likely to be a priority scheme.
Many other lines will have a higher business case (eg the XC routes) because of traffic levels.

 

[The Planner]

Don't expect anything exciting, from what I have been told it just replaces what it there in more modern form. There may be a couple of tweaks here and there but not a lot else.

 

[SIGGY56]

Bob

It's a bit of a mystery what is actually planned.
The resignalling plan lists "North Wales East" for 2014 and "North Wales West" for 2020.
North Wales East includes Llandudno-Llandudno Jn-Rockliffe Hall.
Chester PSB area is also after 2019.
Our local boxes (Croes Newydd, Penyffordd, Dee Marsh) are not till 2025!

But I don't know what it means on the ground, except the intention is to signal everything from Cardiff (or possibly Manchester for the Chester area).
Nothing has been said about technology.
It might be a roll-out of the modular signalling going in on the Crewe-Shrewsbury line.

The CP5 (2014-19) plans for North Wales are very simple - nothing except a few station upgrades.
Maybe the updated NR CP5 plan in January (responding to the HLOS) will tell us more.[/QUOTE]

The first stage will abolish boxes between Rockcliffe Hall - Abergele, Deganwy and Llandudno. Llandudno Junction will stay until the next lot of resignalling takes place all the way to Holyhead. Llandudno Junction SB will work direct to Cardiff for the Llandudno line and east towards Abergele.

SIGGY56

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The first stage will abolish boxes between Rockcliffe Hall - Abergele, Deganwy and Llandudno. Llandudno Junction will stay until the next lot of resignalling takes place all the way to Holyhead. Llandudno Junction SB will work direct to Cardiff for the Llandudno line and east towards Abergele.

Thanks for the detail.
I hope they can raise line speeds to nearer 100mph in the process.
I assume this is conventional resignalling with lots of new cabling and colour lights (ie expensive).
It's a pity ETCS hasn't moved to the point where we can do away with all that.

 

[merlodlliw]

It's a bit of a mystery what is actually planned.
The resignalling plan lists "North Wales East" for 2014 and "North Wales West" for 2020.
North Wales East includes Llandudno-Llandudno Jn-Rockliffe Hall.
Chester PSB area is also after 2019.
Our local boxes (Croes Newydd, Penyffordd, Dee Marsh) are not till 2025!

But I don't know what it means on the ground, except the intention is to signal everything from Cardiff (or possibly Manchester for the Chester area).
Nothing has been said about technology.
It might be a roll-out of the modular signalling going in on the Crewe-Shrewsbury line.

The CP5 (2014-19) plans for North Wales are very simple - nothing except a few station upgrades.
Maybe the updated NR CP5 plan in January (responding to the HLOS) will tell us more.

The first stage will abolish boxes between Rockcliffe Hall - Abergele, Deganwy and Llandudno. Llandudno Junction will stay until the next lot of resignalling takes place all the way to Holyhead. Llandudno Junction SB will work direct to Cardiff for the Llandudno line and east towards Abergele.

SIGGY56[/QUOTE]

North East Wales will of course include the requirement for the Saltney/Rossett section for double tracking which starts next year,I presume if signalling was from Cardiff, the Wrexham section as now would remain with Chester
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Very interesting. Looks like they are getting to grips with the business case.
The NW electrification scheme was costed at £200m when it was just Liverpool-Manchester-Preston, and is basically 75 miles of double track.
The minimum scheme for North Wales would be 125 miles (Warrington/Crewe to Holyhead) plus the Llandudno branch.
So that would be about £300m. Maybe the EU would fund some of it as an international route.
No doubt there would be lobbying to include Chester-Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton (75 miles or another £200m).
The scheme was not in the recent HLOS so it isn't going to happen in CP5.
I can understand doing the groundwork for a CP6 scheme (2019-24), but to me it is not likely to be a priority scheme.
Many other lines will have a higher business case (eg the XC routes) because of traffic levels.

I dont see the Llandudno branch , six days a week for 40 weeks being wired,presume the Conwy Valley line would remain unwired for sure