I dont understand running codes.

[class222lover]

Hi everyone.
I dont understand running codes. An example would be, '1S16'. What dose it mean and how would I know this code was being used.

Kind regards, class222lover

 

[ainsworth74]

Wikipedia is useful here. But basically, they're called train reporting numbers and identify an individual train/service. The first number identifies what class (express passenger, stopping passenger, freight and so on), in this case 1 is used to identify express passenger. The letter refers to the region that the train's destination is in (though this is a bit rough as there is some letter repetition and local variations) but in you case I'd guess the S refers to Scotland (that's what it normally does). The final two numbers are specific to that train and are sequential so as the day goes on they get higher.

That's quite simplistic but hopefully helpful

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The first digit is what type of train it is, 1 is an express passenger train. The letter is the route it is taking or where it is going to, though these letter are repeated across the UK. the remaining two digits identify the train itself, these numbers can be repeated later in the day if needed (for example where there are more than 100 trains on a given route). Often you will find the last digit is even for travel in one direction and odd in the other.

 

[Zoe]

though these letter are repeated across the UK.

Do they use the same train reporting number system in Northern Ireland?

 

[class222lover]

Thanks for the help.

BTW, if you need a question answering about the MML I'm you're guy.

 

[tsr]

The codes are not actually unique, just so you know - the same code can apply to more than one service, provide these services either run at very different times or are in different regions of the country.

Despite this lack of 100% uniqueness, they are still very useful and concise identifiers, and are a great help in avoiding confusion.

 

[Zoe]

Are there any plans for a standardized EU system? Would seem logical considering we are moving towards standardized signalling with ERTMS.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Two very good websites to look at headcodes are www.traintimes.im and also www.opentraintimes.com, although the latter can be very slow at times. I use traintimes.im mostly.

 

[ainsworth74]

Would seem logical considering we are moving towards standardized signalling with ERTMS.

By which don't you mean everyone doing their own thing that's theoretically compatible with everything else but in practice isn't totally and normally costs quite a lot to make compatible?

 

[87015]

Do they use the same train reporting number system in Northern Ireland?

Not unless its changed in the last decade or so. Certainly CIE used the far more usual practise of train numbers and I'm pretty damn sure they didn't change over at the border heading onto NIR.

An Irish headcode would be something like A123
A = train category
1 = destination/origin area code
23 = train identifier

 

[Metrailway]

Below is a link to an old BR (London Midland Region) document outlining how headcodes worked:

http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRB_4_Position_Train_indicators2.pdf

 

[Eagle]

An Irish headcode would be something like A123
A = train category
1 = destination/origin area code
23 = train identifier

Which is actually the same information in the same order as the British system.

Ireland's network being smaller I can imagine that there would be no duplications on a given day, whereas in the British system it's not uncommon to have five or six trains sharing a code.

 

[Zoe]

By which don't you mean everyone doing their own thing that's theoretically compatible with everything else but in practice isn't totally and normally costs quite a lot to make compatible?

The idea of ERTMS was to address the current incompatibilities for managing the movement of trains. A single EU wide train indentification system would also help if in the future it was decided to have a single EU network control centre like they plan to do with ATC at Maastricht.
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/rail/interoperability/ertms/ertms_en.htm

The specification, as modified by a Commission Decision on 23 April 2008, now guarantees that Europe's trains equipped with ETCS can travel on any line equipped with ETCS.

 

[tsr]

...if in the future it was decided to have a single EU network control centre like they plan to do with ATC at Maastricht.

Oh, goodness me, no, no, no! I have a horrible feeling that the good people of Maastricht might have a very hard time learning all the nuances of our system effectively and quickly.

"I am sorry to announce that the 1448 Southern service to London Victoria has been cancelled. This is because the Europeans have sent the darn thing up the Quarry Line by mistake."

(Repeat in Dutch.)

 

[telstarbox]

If you want to know the reporting number (or 'headcode') of a particular train, search for it at www.opentraintimes.com having first clicked the cog button at the top to enable 'advanced mode'.

For example, the 19.30 tonight from St Pancras to Leeds has the non-unique headcode 1D69.

In days gone by, trains would display the headcode using roller blinds on the front end of the loco, as shown here: http://sulzerpower.com/frontends/headcode47105toddington130310_shaunc.jpg

 

[Eagle]

For example, the 19.30 tonight from St Pancras to Leeds is 1D69.

But watch out: the 19.18 Paddington to Oxford, the 22.09 Waterloo to Dorking and the 22.23 Crewe to Chester are all also called 1D69.

 

[bb21]

But watch out: the 19.18 Paddington to Oxford, the 22.09 Waterloo to Dorking and the 22.23 Crewe to Chester are all also called 1D69.

In addition, you also get situations like this:

2F35 0922 Warrington Bank Quay - Liverpool Lime Street
2F35 1422 Warrington Bank Quay - Liverpool Lime Street
2F35 1922 Warrington Bank Quay - Liverpool Lime Street

Of course, this only happens with trains sufficiently apart.

 

[telstarbox]

Presumably two trains with the same headcode can't run on the same route at the same time, to avoid ambiguity?

 

[The Planner]

Nothing to technically stop it as long as the UID is different.

 

[Zoe]

Nothing to technically stop it as long as the UID is different.

Wouldn't it confuse the ARS?

 

[telstarbox]

Hopefully on the MML it would know its ARS from its LBO

/coat

 

[bb21]

Presumably two trains with the same headcode can't run on the same route at the same time, to avoid ambiguity?

It may no longer be the case, however I believe that historically the separation is required to be of a minimum of six hours.

 

[Eagle]

It may no longer be the case, however I believe that historically the separation is required to be of a minimum of six hours.

It can't be the case as the ones you quoted are only separated by five hours.

 

[fairysdad]

Is there a unique identifier for trains; if a headcode isn't always unique, should there be some other way of uniquely identifying a train? Moreso perhaps now with computers than in the past given that an entry in a database should always have one unique reference - although it is possible for a database to have a composite unique reference (in the case of trains, this could likely be the headcode/time/origin composite), when doing database programming at college a few years back we were told that this should never be done.

Taking the Warrington Bank Quay - Liverpool Lime Street for instance, should one of them be running late, you may end up with two of them running much closer together than they should, so although a headcode is a good quick way of identifying it, is there some other deeper way? (Having said that, could it also be the case that these three duplicate headcodes are actually the same train, running - effectively - from Warrington Bank Quay to Liverpool Lime Street via Liverpool Lime Street, Warrington Bank Quay, Liverpool Lime Street, and Warrington Bank Quay?)

 

[ainsworth74]

Is the a unique identifier for trains; if a headcode isn't always unique, should there be some other way of uniquely identifying a train?

There already is, it's called a UID. For example there are about ten trains with the headcode 2R10 (with three departing within one hour of each other) but only one of them has the UID C22323 (that being the 0627 from Paddington to Reading).

 

[fairysdad]

There already is, it's called a UID. For example there are about ten trains with the headcode 2R10 (with three departing within one hour of each other) but only one of them has the UID C22323 (that being the 0627 from Paddington to Reading).

That's good then

I was just about to ask why they don't use the UIDs as headcodes, but have realised that a headcode is probably more useful to a signaller as it tells them what the train is rather than just which train it is.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Passenger trains also have retail IDs. They are based on two letters (short for the TOC name, although some of them aren't so obvious as they refer to previous franchise operators) and 4 numbers. Where a train joins/divides into different portions in theory they should all have the same retail ID, although that doesn't seem to always be properly implemented as far as I have seen. They are mostly used for interfacing with the reservations system I think.

 

[The Planner]

Wouldn't it confuse the ARS?

Probably, but there are still vast areas of non-ARS signalling.

 

[SussexMan]

And what happens when trains join/divide? Does the train at the front keep it's Reporting Number and the train joining the rear lose it? Is a new Reporting Number applied to the whole train, or does a train end up with two Reporting Numbers? Or did they both start off with the same Reporting Number?

 

[MCR247]

As far as the headcodes are concerned trains run like
Victoria - Sourhampton
Horsham - Bognor
etc
Bognor - Victoria
Southampton - Horsham.

That is why the highland sleeper NB is 1S25(? 6?) to Inverness and then it's EDB - ABD/FTW