The Key arrives at Gatwick

[34D]

Yes, but the whole principal of ITSO is that you do not need more than one ITSO card. It is possible to load on any companies product onto any ITSO card - even loading a Southern 'The Key' product onto a 'Stagecoach Smart' card.

TP

This was the intention of smartcards, however at present I understand that stagecoach smartcards are effectively 'locked' to stagecoach buses, and the key locked to go-ahead buses/trains.

If there has been movement in this area, then I'd be pleased to hear updates.

Thomas Cairns, whom I understand to be a senior manager at ITSO, blogged about this issue earlier in the year http://thomas-cairns.co.uk/2012/01/fragmentation-interoperability-ticketing/

 

[Deerfold]

Hang on, are you saying The Key is a product, and not a medium? Surely not!

It is my understanding that The Key is a medium, and therefore by definition it is neither "valid" or "invalid" any more than any blank ticket stock or an Oyster card with nothing loaded onto it.

I do not consider the statement above to have "cleared up" anything; it raises more questions than answers!

I am certain it is a medium, in which case the questions are: what products exactly can be loaded onto them? If I commute between Gatwick and Brighton, what products are available, and at what price, on either paper or The Key?

If the product is the same, the medium is irrelevant

The product appears to be different regardless of acceptance on FCC if it is only valid at the stations on the map. Can you break your journey at stations not listed on the map but between places on your season ticket?

 

[Stats]

Can you break your journey at stations not listed on the map but between places on your season ticket?

Can I break my journey with a point to point season ticket?

Break of journey functionality is not currently available on the key, therefore you will not be able to touch in or touch out on the ticket gates at a station on route. You will need to show your key card to the gate-line staff to let you out if you need to exit or re-enter at one of the stations along your line of route. For example, if you have a season ticket valid from Lewes to Brighton, you will need to show your key card to the gateline staff at Falmer if you need to exit the station.

http://www.southernrailway.com/smart-card/faq/using-the-key/4/

 

[ushawk]

From your post it sounds like you believe that PAYG is being used for these smart cards, but that is news to me!

The only PAYG system that is in use is Oyster and no others are planned in the near future as far as I know, but there is a longer term plan for such a system in the PTE areas.

An Oyster PAYG style system would work in the way you suggest but that is not being implemented with The Key.

From what ive been told, PAYG will happen with it, but you pre-buy tickets to go on them before that.

Im using the example of a person having a Brighton - Lewes Season - travelling onto Eastbourne, and the system working the price of excessing the ticket to Eastbourne - that makes more sense. Of course if the person bought a Lewes - Eastbourne single - a BoJ may be needed to touch in/out.

 

[yorkie]

Interesting, news to me! Do you have a timescale for that? What will the 'maximum fare' be and what happens when the system has expanded a lot?

 

[mattdickinson]

Interesting, news to me! Do you have a timescale for that? What will the 'maximum fare' be and what happens when the system has expanded a lot?

From the Southern website:

Singles and returns are due in Winter 2012 and pay as you go is due in Spring 2013.

It will be interesting to see how Southern PAYG will interact with Oyster PAYG. This is due in Winter 2013.

 

[bb21]

From what ive been told, PAYG will happen with it, but you pre-buy tickets to go on them before that.

This is an interesting concept. If pre-bought singles/returns will be held on the card, how many of them will the card be able to store at the same time? If more than one, I can think of quite a few situations where problems can occur.

It is good that Southern are working on a smartcard solution to ticketing, however I fear that we are still a long way from an actual practical answer.

 

[ushawk]

Interesting, news to me! Do you have a timescale for that? What will the 'maximum fare' be and what happens when the system has expanded a lot?

They need to sort out being able to put single/returns on it first !!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is an interesting concept. If pre-bought singles/returns will be held on the card, how many of them will the card be able to store at the same time? If more than one, I can think of quite a few situations where problems can occur.

It is good that Southern are working on a smartcard solution to ticketing, however I fear that we are still a long way from an actual practical answer.

I would have thought a few could be held, but problems can and most probably will occur as this is totally new for the rail network in the UK.

Not sure on other TOCs plans for ITSO, but Southern to appear to have it laid out well. Asked a staff member the other day about the uptake of The Key so far, think they said about 300 people have them so far, so it isnt too bad with the limited availability of tickets/routes.

 

[Eagle]

Not sure on other TOCs' plans for ITSO, but Southern to appear to have it laid out well.

Sister TOC LM have been trialling the Key for a while now on the western Snow Hill lines, and say they'll be extending its area in "late 2012–early 2013" (sufficiently vague, no?).


(Been thinking about getting one for myself, to use Wilts and Dorset's 10-trip carnet option, but only because the destination blind of every one of their buses has been advertising it for months now, and it was impossible to ignore.)

 

[route:oxford]

This was the intention of smartcards, however at present I understand that stagecoach smartcards are effectively 'locked' to stagecoach buses, and the key locked to go-ahead buses/trains.

Your understanding is a bit out of date.

I use my "The Key" ITSO card on both Oxford Bus company services and Stagecoach services.

Likewise the Stagecoach equivalent can be used on both Stagecoach and Oxford Bus Company Services.

 

[Deerfold]

Your understanding is a bit out of date.

I use my "The Key" ITSO card on both Oxford Bus company services and Stagecoach services.

Likewise the Stagecoach equivalent can be used on both Stagecoach and Oxford Bus Company Services.

I think that's unique to Oxford though - I don't think you could take the card and add, say, a Lothian travelpass to it.

And could you add the Oxford Bus Company pass to a "The Key" pass or is it just they have decided to accept each other's tickets?

 

[maniacmartin]

Can I break my journey with a point to point season ticket?

Break of journey functionality is not currently available on the key, therefore you will not be able to touch in or touch out on the ticket gates at a station on route. You will need to show your key card to the gate-line staff to let you out if you need to exit or re-enter at one of the stations along your line of route. For example, if you have a season ticket valid from Lewes to Brighton, you will need to show your key card to the gateline staff at Falmer if you need to exit the station.

http://www.southernrailway.com/smart-card/faq/using-the-key/4/

This quote from Southern seems contradictory to me. You can't break your journey with the Key... You can break your journey by showing the Key to gateline staff.

I presume they've conceeded this as season BoJs are allowed as per the NRCoC, and they can't overrule that. How are gateline staff to know what's loaded on your Key? Will they have readers at these non-supported stations or just wave you through I wonder. If the latter, I can imagine a very easy way to scam the system until one meets an RPI...

 

[ushawk]

This quote from Southern seems contradictory to me. You can't break your journey with the Key... You can break your journey by showing the Key to gateline staff.

I presume they've conceeded this as season BoJs are allowed as per the NRCoC, and they can't overrule that. How are gateline staff to know what's loaded on your Key? Will they have readers at these non-supported stations or just wave you through I wonder. If the latter, I can imagine a very easy way to scam the system until one meets an RPI...

There are readers at the manual gates on the gateline with screens on them, can only assume that shows what the ticket is so the staff member can see it.

 

[Stats]

This quote from Southern seems contradictory to me. You can't break your journey with the Key... You can break your journey by showing the Key to gateline staff.

It's not contradictory. It is saying that the software will only will recognise that you have a valid ticket held on the key at either end of your point to point season ticket. All other gatelines will reject your ticket because it doesn't recognise that you have a valid ticket and so needs manual intervention. I presume this is because the software does not hold the data to determine that that BOJ station is on a valid routeing and so can only determine that a ticket is valid if presented at a named station (or zone) on the ticket.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Would I be able to use my iff card on this??

 

[bangor-toad]

Hi there,
Does "The Key" actually work?
I'm not talking about the technical specs but more the human side of things.

I've got the EMT equivalant smartcard and it's a joke.
I can load seasons or day tickets onto it fine. It lets me start the journey. Then it's fairly predicatable what happens:

On the train I show the card. It is never actaully read or checked if it's valid for the train/route I'm on.
I get to the destination. It invariably fails to open the gate. I show it to the staff member and they let me out without any check other than looking at the card.
(Occasionally if it's quiet the gateline staff ask me if it ever works and when I say "hardly ever" chuckle quietly to themselves, some saying most people have given up and gone back to paper tickets)

Frankly the way it fails to work the barriers and that the staff have never run a reader over the card doesn't inspire much confidence in the roll out of ITSO based ticketing. To all intents and purposes the ITSO card is a free unlimited rover ticket on EMT and that can't be right...

So, do any other ITSO-based railway services actually work with the technical bits performing as they should and the staff having the right readers?
Cheers,
Jason

 

[34D]

Your understanding is a bit out of date.

I use my "The Key" ITSO card on both Oxford Bus company services and Stagecoach services.

Likewise the Stagecoach equivalent can be used on both Stagecoach and Oxford Bus Company Services.

Please use the 'wallet' on this card on a stagecoach bus in Manchester and report back.

I find your message very rude, and think an apology would be nice.