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First win Intercity West Coast franchise

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Wath Yard

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Is it no longer the case that thirty one existing Pendolinos are being extended to 11 carriages? I thought that was the plan, but these details only suggest a total of thirty one 11-car Pendolinos, comprising the four new 390s and twenty seven existing trains. I suppose that could have been the plan all along, just worded craftily by Virgin.

Yes it is still the case. 4 * 11-car units and 62 extra standard class carriages. The order was placed years ago by the DfT and First would have no potential to alter it.

On the subject of Silver Standard. GNER used to operate it on peak trains and it was very busy. I used to sit in the smoking carriage, the good old days, so can't remember what they offered but it was something like a free newspaper and free coffee for passengers on full price standard tickets.
 
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Buspilot

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Virgin's proposed flight times for MAN - LHR released:

VS3041 LHR0920 – 1020MAN 319 D
VS3043 LHR1610 – 1710MAN 319 D
VS3045 LHR2010 – 2110MAN 319 D
VS3046 MAN0650 – 0800LHR 319 D
VS3042 MAN1220 – 1330LHR 319 D
VS3044 MAN1750 – 1900LHR 319 D
 

WestCoast

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Virgin's proposed flight times for MAN - LHR released:

VS3041 LHR0920 – 1020MAN 319 D
VS3043 LHR1610 – 1710MAN 319 D
VS3045 LHR2010 – 2110MAN 319 D
VS3046 MAN0650 – 0800LHR 319 D
VS3042 MAN1220 – 1330LHR 319 D
VS3044 MAN1750 – 1900LHR 319 D

The frequency is too low to make any sort of impact on the Manchester - London rail market, where rail has held the lion share of passengers for some years now. No doubt this route is mainly for connecting passengers. I wonder who they are getting the A319 from.
 

MidnightFlyer

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Would be a good name for first because with their record passengers would be staring hopelessly at the horizon hoping for a train to appear.

:roll: Remind me again, is it Virgin Trains or a First Group franchise who has the worst Public Performance Measure...

(It's Virgin BTW, about 85% I believe, most TOCs reach the 90s with ease.)
 

class26

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If the Javelin doesn't tilt, you can discount that then, so I would go for the CAF Oaris as in the future it is ready for any High Speed line.

Just a point on new stock. In the airline industry the aim is often to have the same type ie Ryan air operate ONLY 737 - 800`s, just lots of them. It keeps maintenance, staff training, spares etc simple. With this in mind surely the mini pendolino is the way to go and the most likely outcome ? Why introduce a small fleet of a new type (alla the 180`s) when a proven design is waiting ?
 

Wath Yard

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Mini Pendolino won't just be a Pendolino but shorter. There will be differences. Some of the most reliable TOCs do have trains from just one manufacturer, i.e. C2C and London Overground, but SWT gets exceptional reliability from its fleet and that is a pretty mixed bag - ex BR, Siemens and Alstom.
 

Nym

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The frequency is too low to make any sort of impact on the Manchester - London rail market, where rail has held the lion share of passengers for some years now. No doubt this route is mainly for connecting passengers. I wonder who they are getting the A319 from.

I'd assume Virgin Blue or Virgin America on a sub lease...
 

snail

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The frequency is too low to make any sort of impact on the Manchester - London rail market, where rail has held the lion share of passengers for some years now. No doubt this route is mainly for connecting passengers. I wonder who they are getting the A319 from.
It's something to offer people connecting to other Virgin flights from Heathrow, enables them to advertise a service 'from Manchester' even though you will end up spending hours wandering around the other place.
 

richw

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This is good news (for me, at any rate).
I would like to understand the logic, though.
If it is good for the West Coast franchise (VT or FWC), why is it not used on other similar franchises, notably FGW and TPE, and maybe EC and XC (ie the longer-distance TOCs)?
There doesn't seem to be much consistency between TOCs, even if they are owned by the same group.

Despite no easement publicly advertised fgw staff (on the Cornish branches at least) always give railcard discount without failure prior to the time they officially should give the discount.
 

WatcherZero

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BMI currently flys 650,000 people annually between Manchester and Heathrow but now they will be absorbed by Virgins arch rival BA so their using a single plane to try and get some 250,000 of those back.
 

Nym

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Not forgeting that Lufthansa and Singapore Airlines will likely take some of these connecting passengers as well, not to mention the potential for US Airways (if it still exists), as these all codeshare frequently with Virgin Atlantic, so one assumes there will be a reciprocate agreement?

Although Lufthansa has a massive presence at Manchester now, so maybe not them.
 

HH

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but is it? Will First WC not just loose full FC revenue on one carriage and replace it with, essentially, enhanced second class revenue in the same carriage.

Will this not be less than full fc revenue? Am i missing something?

Yes, the same thing that Virgin are missing. It's called Full Fare First Class Revenue. There isn't any (or very little).
 

DarloRich

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Would be a good name for first because with their record passengers would be staring hopelessly at the horizon hoping for a train to appear.

What on earth are you talking about?


Yes, the same thing that Virgin are missing. It's called Full Fare First Class Revenue. There isn't any (or very little).

So you are telling me all of the suits i see sat on the train at Euston on a night are on a First Class mega super advance apex ticket?
 

RPI

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Despite no easement publicly advertised fgw staff (on the Cornish branches at least) always give railcard discount without failure prior to the time they officially should give the discount.
Really? Better let the guards managers know then! Are we forgetting that FGW earned "Train operator of the year" in 2010 also?
 

bailey65

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:roll: Remind me again, is it Virgin Trains or a First Group franchise who has the worst Public Performance Measure...

(It's Virgin BTW, about 85% I believe, most TOCs reach the 90s with ease.)

Well they are both sh**e as far as customer service and reliability are concerned.
 
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MidnightFlyer

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Sorry, I have to share this:

VT Facebook wall comment... said:
Virgin Rail should be kept on and not have another american taking over

Right, the Scottish company with an American MD you mean. Isn't said American MD also considered one of LUL's best ever managers?

That's my daily visiting done there, I'll return tomorrow when my blood pressure has returned to normal.
 

RPI

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Sorry, I have to share this:



Right, the Scottish company with an American MD you mean. Isn't said American MD also considered one of LUL's best ever managers?

That's my daily visiting done there, I'll return tomorrow when my blood pressure has returned to normal.

Majority of Virgin group directors etc are Aussies!
 

387star

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So West Coast will sort the stinking toilets out (even reduce the number??) and take away the interior plastic?? Maybe people won't moan about these trains anymore! I reckon the voyagers will have a brilliant refubishment enough to make XC look like EasyJet in comparison.

I am a great fan of the FGW refurbishments including the HSTs!! nothing wrong with them and I prefer the privacy and higher backs!
 

tbtc

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it will enable me to spend 2 hours working in a more comfortable environment if I so choose. That way I may get something productive done free from some of the many distractions elsewhere in the train. That's all it is, choice

By "distractions", do you mean "fewer fellow passengers"? Is the selling point of First Class that you don't have to mingle with noisy passengers?
 

snail

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By "distractions", do you mean "fewer fellow passengers"? Is the selling point of First Class that you don't have to mingle with noisy passengers?
Pretty much :) Though certain (other) business types do have an annoying tendency to make annoyingly loud phone calls.

Give me a few cups of coffee and I'm happy. If I want food there are enough places around Euston to get something to eat before I travel or bring with me. I usually travel on the quieter trains, where I find Virgin's food offerings except for breakfast far too inconsistent to rely on, and the shop fare is no better.
 

richw

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Really? Better let the guards managers know then! Are we forgetting that FGW earned "Train operator of the year" in 2010 also?

Why let the guards manager know, clearly as its every member of staff i meet, then its clearly coming from above to instruct such allowances.
good customer service to allow the discount imo
 

Geezertronic

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So West Coast will sort the stinking toilets out (even reduce the number??) and take away the interior plastic?? Maybe people won't moan about these trains anymore! I reckon the voyagers will have a brilliant refubishment enough to make XC look like EasyJet in comparison.

I am a great fan of the FGW refurbishments including the HSTs!! nothing wrong with them and I prefer the privacy and higher backs!

Just imagine the thought of a 390 where all the Windows line up to the seats. That would give the moaners something less to moan about :D
 

RPI

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Why let the guards manager know, clearly as its every member of staff i meet, then its clearly coming from above to instruct such allowances.
good customer service to allow the discount imo

Trust me, there is no instruction from above, it would also be good customer service to let everyone travel free. I shall do some investigating. for all you know a manager could well be on this forum.......
 

Wath Yard

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So you are telling me all of the suits i see sat on the train at Euston on a night are on a First Class mega super advance apex ticket?

Probably. I used to be one of those suits in the Friday peak and used to travel on cheap Advance tickets.
 

sdrennan

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Can they out more power Sockets in at the airline seats on the pendos in any new refurb please
 
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On the subject of Silver Standard. GNER used to operate it on peak trains and it was very busy. I used to sit in the smoking carriage, the good old days, so can't remember what they offered but it was something like a free newspaper and free coffee for passengers on full price standard tickets.

Yes they did, it was called standard plus, it was in either the 1 or 2 standard carriages nearest to the buffet. From what i remember it was just on Leeds services and was for full fare standard open (as they were called then) tickets. You got tea/coffee, newspaper, buscuits and order taken from the buffet menu and delivered at seat. It was on all Leeds trains throughout the day and was really a bit stupid as on the morning peak services the whole train was entitled to it (no advances on peak am trains back then) so there was a mad rush to gets seats in those 2 coaches, yet in the off peak you had a nearly empty coach while there were passengers stood up without seats. On Friday afternoons/evenings we always made some excuse up to cancel it and told passengers to claim there tea/coffee/newspaper from the buffet, the trains were too busy to justify it taking a whole coach up.
Im sure First will do it differently however, probably sell it as a standard business package, with any spare seats on the day available for upgrade for a supplement from the guard.

On the subject of First, while there train operations are good, there bus operations at least in Leeds and Manchester are not. You cant blame people for bad mouthing them on facebook etc if they only have experience of using first buses. I am a little miffed how they can manage their train operations so well yet offer a crap, overpriced, unreliable bus service.
 

northwichcat

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Right, the Scottish company with an American MD you mean. Isn't said American MD also considered one of LUL's best ever managers?

Maybe people can't believe that British companies like First and Stagecoach have such large North American operations, so automatically assume that they are American.
 

tbtc

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On the subject of First, while there train operations are good, there bus operations at least in Leeds and Manchester are not. You cant blame people for bad mouthing them on facebook etc if they only have experience of using first buses. I am a little miffed how they can manage their train operations so well yet offer a crap, overpriced, unreliable bus service.

Its all relative.

Leeds and Manchester have seen plenty of new buses over the years. Here in Sheffield we have had fewer, and most of the new buses that we have had over the past decade (53, 06, 57, 08 plate Geminis) have been transferred elsewhere.

The grass is always greener, but with Leeds seeing plenty of post-Olympic investment I'd swap their problems for ours!
 
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