First win Intercity West Coast franchise

[Yew]

I can't stand IC70s, I find them terribly uncomfortable. Second only to Merseytravel Pacer seating in the discomfort stakes for me (did a two hour stint on them today and my back is sore!).

Seating is entirely subjective though - what some like, others dislike. I've heard a lot of rave reviews about the seating on Adelates and 175s, whereas I think they are just OK.

Are we talking of first class r standard though? I find that first is like slouching in an armchair, whereas standard promoted a reasonably good posture. With a reasonable level of padding. I found both comfortable, but think the standard class versions would benefit from a headrest, so you can rest your head, and reduce carriage visibility slightly, but not so much to feel claustrophobic

 

[snail]

one of my friends on Twitter was retweeting something from a Virgin employee praising the "professionalism" of all the Virgin staff for continuing to work for the last few months of their franchise (as if they were the first TOC not to "retain" a franchise and deserved special praise for, erm, continuing to do the job they are paid for).

I don't recall service standards slipping before the XC franchise went from Virgin. It should really work the other way as staff should be looking to demonstrate that First can't afford to lose them after they take over!

 

[transportphoto]

FirstGroup's £13bn West Coast rail bid faces probe by MPs http://virg.co/WCML #TeamVT

Should be interesting....

TP

 

[YorkshireBear]

Can't believe folk are arguing about table chairs and colours of trains,people jobs could be at risk,I don't work for Virgin but I know loads who do and enjoy it,ones I know work for First hate it.

And i know loads of people who work for First and love it, so its my word against yours.... What is with this 'lets hate First before they have done anything' attitude everyone seems to be adopting? They have already said jobs will be kept constant for 5 years in several statements, as has been discussed on the previous 55 pages of this thread. After 55 pages of comments we don't want to just discuss jobs as there is nothing left to say on the subject at the moment. So please dont come on here acting as if we do not care about jobs, we just cant comment everyday saying 'whats happening with the jobs' when no new or relevant information has come to light for a few days.

 

[Nym]

You know that a recruitment freeze (that this sounds a lot like) is significantly worse than just honest job cuts, in short, due to natural wastage and resignation you end up loosing staff in the wrong places, then trying to use the wrong staff in the wrong place. It's a nice face saving exercise, but it's a crap business decision.

 

[All Line Rover]

Its actually too dull. Combined with the dull coloured bulkheads and roof, and the small dark windows, it gives the interiors a very very dull claustrophobic interior. The lights need to be brighter.

Rubbish. Without overhead light, the brightness is mild, allowing you to fall asleep. With the overhead light, it is very bright - more than bright enough do some reading.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Imagine, no tables in standard, if you want a table or plug socket pay the club class upgrade

And where have First said that?

and in first class you no longer get a bay of table seats to yourself.

So you'd prefer the current highly unsustainable layout?

 

[317666]

I actually like the current interior of the Pendolinos, the seats are reasonably comfortable, the lighting isn't stupidly bright, and although the windows are small the actual alignment has been done correctly - table bays of four line up to a window properly, unlike the FGW HSTs which are completely hit and miss in terms of window alignment. In any case, anyone who doesn't want a pillar seat can easily avoid one by looking at the online seating plans of 390s and 221s and make sure their reserved seat isn't one of the ones coloured in blue on the plan.

 

[Wath Yard]

Can't believe folk are arguing about table chairs and colours of trains,people jobs could be at risk,I don't work for Virgin but I know loads who do and enjoy it,ones I know work for First hate it.

For someone who appears to work in the rail industry you have a very low opinion of passengers. No, the colour of the trains isn't important, but the interior environment of trains is. Passengers matter too, and they outnumber staff considerably.

 

[tbtc]

What is with this 'lets hate First before they have done anything' attitude everyone seems to be adopting?

It's because they are going to get rid of eight hundred jobs, bring in 3+2 seats, abolish all tables/plugs for Standard Class and the only food on board will be crisps, apparently.

Oh, that's just rumour/ speculation/ nonsense? Maybe we should concentrate on the "more trains, more services, more destinations, no loss of staff, cheaper tickets" bits which we know are definite commitments (and ignore the tittle tattle)?

 

[route:oxford]

The only food on board will be crisps, apparently.

What flavour of crisps will be available?

Hope they'll be kettle chips.

 

[davido39]

My understanding is there only going to provide plain crisps, free to first class passengers but to second class passengers the charge of £100 a 25gram bag will be in affect. As of the company providing the crisps the rumor is to keep English relations up Golden Wonder are the for runners.

The "snack bar" will open at Carlisle for the passengers boarding at Glasgow Central and close at Penrith for those traveling to London Euston. For anyone wishing to purchase hot and cold drinks, only Irn Bru in various flavors will be available as First will be sponsored by Barr's!

 

[swt_passenger]

My understanding is there only going to provide plain crisps, free to first class passengers but to second class passengers the charge of £100 a 25gram bag will be in affect. As of the company providing the crisps the rumor is to keep English relations up Golden Wonder are the for runners.

I'd expect third class passengers will have to pay for the salt for their crisps separately. :roll:

 

[Lampshade]

My understanding is there only going to provide plain crisps, free to first class passengers but to second class passengers the charge of £100 a 25gram bag will be in affect. As of the company providing the crisps the rumor is to keep English relations up Golden Wonder are the for runners.

The "snack bar" will open at Carlisle for the passengers boarding at Glasgow Central and close at Penrith for those traveling to London Euston. For anyone wishing to purchase hot and cold drinks, only Irn Bru in various flavors will be available as First will be sponsored by Barr's!

Oh please, it's FirstGroup, not Ryanair.

 

[FManc]

I don't really understand the whole involvement of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and the Transport Committee that the Telegraph are reporting. If they are to investigate does anyone know what the possible outcomes could be?

 

[jon0844]

I think the last few posts were merely continuing a joke. The actual point was precisely that First won't be cutting things as suggested, exactly because they're not Ryanair.

 

[HH]

I don't really understand the whole involvement of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and the Transport Committee that the Telegraph are reporting. If they are to investigate does anyone know what the possible outcomes could be?

Anything could happen in the next three weeks... da-dum-da-da-dum.

 

[PR1Berske]

I don't really understand the whole involvement of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and the Transport Committee that the Telegraph are reporting. If they are to investigate does anyone know what the possible outcomes could be?

Not sure of the outcomes, as these things can drag on. But certain Committees have a lot of heft and kudos, and they happen to include both PAC and Transport. They've always had members who enjoy getting into the Treasury and poking around

I doubt that they, or alleged judicial review, could get the decision reversed.

 

[Mr Spock]

Although I would have liked Virgin to keep the franchise until I see what First do I am prepared to wait and see rather than take note of the rumour mill.

I think part of the "feel good" factor about Virgin is a normal reaction for a lot of people i.e. they are used to something and get into a comfort zone whereas change can make them wary.

 

[Wolfie]

Out of curiosity, which platforms at Euston aren't West Coast platforms? I've boarded and alighted Virgin services at platforms from 2 to 18, and plenty inbetween. Thinking about it, is it a handful somewhere in the middle? How many of them have approach ramps that are completely separate from the West Coast platforms?

Platforms 8-11 for a start - LM and LO - with completely separate access..

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I don't really understand the whole involvement of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and the Transport Committee that the Telegraph are reporting. If they are to investigate does anyone know what the possible outcomes could be?

Somebody will get a severe ticking off (ie nothing serious).
On the other hand, the committees have a knack of eventually getting their own back in due course - a settling of political scores...

The Transport Committee knows a lot of the facts (having interviewed Virgin and First on many occasions) but is generally ignored.
The Public Accounts Committee knows next to nothing about the facts but has more clout, and generally fires off at the Treasury (about aircraft carriers, NHS IT contracts and the like).
They don't have the power to overturn the decision, but it does depend on whether mistakes have been made in the DfT assessment, in which case the Ministers stand to be embarrassed.
I'd be surprised it anything came of it.

 

[rail-britain]

Anything could happen in the next three weeks... da-dum-da-da-dum.

Effectively nothing will happen other than Committees meeting and discussing

However if, in the unlikely event, First Group do not sign their contract on Tuesday 28 August this will present a serious issue

The cost / value of the InterCity West Coast franchise seems to keep increasing with every press report
It started at £5.5bn and is now reported as £13bn
This appears to have First Group worried, based on a later news story today, as they had costed the franchise at £11.5bn
I am pretty sure their accountants are going over the figures again, just to make sure they didn't put a decimal point in the wrong place...

 

[marks87]

However if, in the unlikely event, First Group do not sign their contract on Tuesday 28 August this will present a serious issue

Serious enough to start the whole tender process again, complete with a short extension to the current franchise as needed, or would DfT be within their rights to tell First to either sign or get lost, and in the case of the latter simply award to Virgin (assuming they were runners-up)?

 

[Hazlehead]

Although I would have liked Virgin to keep the franchise until I see what First do I am prepared to wait and see rather than take note of the rumour mill.

I think part of the "feel good" factor about Virgin is a normal reaction for a lot of people i.e. they are used to something and get into a comfort zone whereas change can make them wary.

Exactly why the witch hunt against First. Yes it is alot of money but let's face it so was Virgins bid! No sign of they saying where money coming from. You can guarantee they weren't planning on cutting Anytime fares.

People have got to realise that even if Virgin had one it wouldn't have been the same S.Thins would have drastically changed too

 

[RPI]

As everyone seems to be jumping on the rumour bandwagon and comparing the new franchise to FGW (even though we all know most of the rumours are tripe), if we are to guess that it will be like FGW then the catering is one thing that will be exceptional! travelling chef, Pullman's etc...... They will also be selling tap water for £850 per bottle according to the toilet cleaner at Preston but only on fridays and sundays during august and december.

 

[Mr Spock]

Platforms 8-11 for a start - LM and LO - with completely separate access..

The only other platform I have never used with Virgin is number 17 which I believe is to short for pendolinos although a voyager would get in there I have never seen one there.

 

[All Line Rover]

The only other platform I have never used with Virgin is number 17 which I believe is to short for pendolinos although a voyager would get in there I have never seen one there.

I only see London Midland using platform 17.

 

[WatcherZero]

Effectively nothing will happen other than Committees meeting and discussing

However if, in the unlikely event, First Group do not sign their contract on Tuesday 28 August this will present a serious issue

The cost / value of the InterCity West Coast franchise seems to keep increasing with every press report
It started at £5.5bn and is now reported as £13bn
This appears to have First Group worried, based on a later news story today, as they had costed the franchise at £11.5bn
I am pretty sure their accountants are going over the figures again, just to make sure they didn't put a decimal point in the wrong place...

Seems to be people have now started counting the optional 20 month extension and the excess profit share agreement in the figures beyond the basic franchise payments. The fact the vast majority of franchise payments come near the end of the franchise and in the optional extension period is ringing the same bells as the East Coast. Virgins bid the PAC reports had the same ramping up as time went by but wasnt so skewed towards the end of the franchise.

Both the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and the Transport Committee are likely to scrutinise the bid in the face of figures showing it is not until March 2022 that FirstGroup’s winning offer returns substantially higher payments to the taxpayer.


Margaret Hodge, PAC chairman, said she was concerned that, following bid fiascos on the East Coast line, the Department for Transport (DfT) had been “over-optimistic about passenger numbers and economic growth”.


“There is no evidence to us that the DfT has changed its spots on any of this,” she said. “It would probably be legitimate for us to look at the process they have engaged in on this bid.”


In a highly critical report into National Express's 2007 bid for the East Coast franchise, the PAC accused the DFT of failing to “undertake sufficient due diligence”. National Express walked out on its £1.4bn contract after forecast passenger volumes failed to materialise.


The Transport Committee is also understood to have contacted Virgin Rail and FirstGroup in recent days.

However, analysis of the bids shows that while FirstGroup offered £45m more during the first three full years, the taxpayer would be better off with Virgin in each of the next five – by as much as £135m. Only by 2022 does FirstGroup pull £130m ahead.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...n-West-Coast-rail-bid-faces-probe-by-MPs.html

 

[driver_m]

Platforms 8-11 for a start - LM and LO - with completely separate access..

A 9 car pendo can go in 8 and 11. only barred from 9 10 and 17. It's a rarity but it has happened.

 

[150001]

Virgin are now even persuading people to sign this petition!

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/37180


I probably won't sign it; we can't judge First till they start...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I believe it's pinned to the top of their official Facebook Wall too, so it's the first thing any of their 60,000~ likers see when they click on the page. I've given up reading that and the unofficial page, it's angering and humorously saddening in equal measure.