SS4
Established Member
Engage how? You can't give case details as that will breach the Data Protection Act.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
TPE kicks woman and child off train
- Thread starter 142094
- Start date
- Status
Engage how? You can't give case details as that will breach the Data Protection Act.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Anon Mouse
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Mar 2011
- Messages
- 1,274
and also, a passenger can say anything they want, allegations etc etc. The member of staff being complained about will no doubt be contractually barred from discussing anything in defence or relation to it. Thats why companies will reply to complaints on Facebook, Twitter etc by telling them to contact the relevent Customer Relations department so it can be acted upon. This leaves staff at a disadvantage as they cannot defend themselves as quickly as the person complaining/making allegations.
(I hope that makes sense)
(I hope that makes sense)
So you say that.
Yes it does make sense. These issues will go online anyway, whether you like it or not.
Why defend something you cannot defend anyway. You can reassure, work them through the details you need and demonstrate you care. It is not a matter of a black and white answer. You will not be told what action will be taken against the member of staff even if it is offline so why pretend you can?
People will make these comments anyway. It is a matter of acting upon them.
CarterUSM
Established Member
Some folk just can't wait to be offended or outraged anyway, this "little guy taking on the might of the big nasty corporate machine" is a bit old hat now.
Anon Mouse
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Mar 2011
- Messages
- 1,274
My point is Bluenoxoid, that people can say anything they want about staff on Social Networking sites, but the staff involved cannot say anything on the topic. Its onesided and sometimes feels like something else to beat rail staff with.
As a Guard myself, I am going to get on the defensive on this topic and yes, I will accept that my thoughts and comments will be biased towards the member of staff.
Its so easy to knock the railway but socially unacceptable and difficult to defend it when there is a general feeling by the general public that 'the customer is always right'.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
why am I thinking those 'undedog' injury claims adverts?
As a Guard myself, I am going to get on the defensive on this topic and yes, I will accept that my thoughts and comments will be biased towards the member of staff.
Its so easy to knock the railway but socially unacceptable and difficult to defend it when there is a general feeling by the general public that 'the customer is always right'.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
why am I thinking those 'undedog' injury claims adverts?
transmanche
Established Member
- Joined
- 27 Feb 2011
- Messages
- 6,021
Why not? "Data protection" is trotted out as an excuse as often as "health & safety"...
Great post sir. And the chap whom you quoted. The thought that my son (age 2) and his mum could be treated like this beggars belief.
I suspect that most of those baying for blood don't have kids. Or relationships.
Anon Mouse
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Mar 2011
- Messages
- 1,274
what about the woman on the Croydon Tram shouting racial abuse and swearing at people asking to stop her anti-social behaviour with her bairn sitting on here lap? Should she be treated any differently in the eyes of the law because she was a Mother with a Child?
If the facts of the case of the woman being ejected off the train with a child was as simple as her postings on Facebook then it is unacceptable she was ejected from the train. However, as there is no suggesting any action has been taken against the Conductor then its fair to speculate that there may of been more to this story than is on Facebook. In that case, it is possible she may have done something that would of made ejection an option?
On our local Metro system I have seen mothers with children caught without tickets and who have given the ticket inspectors some shocking verbal abuse and seem to educate their kids that the "checkies" are bad guys and that its "wrong" to buy a ticket.
Not everyone who is in charge of a child is a responsible and law abiding person, I will again refer to the gentleman I saw taken off a train and arrested for a football offence who had a young child in tow. Was the arresting officer acting unreasonably?
Personally (as a Guard) I would not eject a mother and child at an unstaffed station, but thats not to say the Guard made the wrong decision just as much as something else that may of happened could have made the Guard justified in their action.
If the facts of the case of the woman being ejected off the train with a child was as simple as her postings on Facebook then it is unacceptable she was ejected from the train. However, as there is no suggesting any action has been taken against the Conductor then its fair to speculate that there may of been more to this story than is on Facebook. In that case, it is possible she may have done something that would of made ejection an option?
On our local Metro system I have seen mothers with children caught without tickets and who have given the ticket inspectors some shocking verbal abuse and seem to educate their kids that the "checkies" are bad guys and that its "wrong" to buy a ticket.
Not everyone who is in charge of a child is a responsible and law abiding person, I will again refer to the gentleman I saw taken off a train and arrested for a football offence who had a young child in tow. Was the arresting officer acting unreasonably?
Personally (as a Guard) I would not eject a mother and child at an unstaffed station, but thats not to say the Guard made the wrong decision just as much as something else that may of happened could have made the Guard justified in their action.
Would have!! Your bad grammar let's down an otherwise well-reasoned post. Sorry if I'm a pedant
Anon Mouse
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Mar 2011
- Messages
- 1,274
no probs, my grammar is a little to be desired at times, I really should check my posts before I click!
mralexn
Member
- Joined
- 2 Nov 2010
- Messages
- 462
transmanche
Established Member
- Joined
- 27 Feb 2011
- Messages
- 6,021
There are plenty of places you can fly to without needing a passport...
90019
Established Member
Couple of observations:
If the journey is (or the other posters journey is) Scarborough-York, then the unstaffed station must be Seamer, 5 minutes from Scarborough.
The scanned ticket is apparently an Advance Single? Not on the booked train, and without Railcard?
What if "the conductor took my belongings off the train" was actually providing assistance to the passenger.
Theres too much currently unknown to come to a proper conclusion.
If the journey is (or the other posters journey is) Scarborough-York, then the unstaffed station must be Seamer, 5 minutes from Scarborough.
The scanned ticket is apparently an Advance Single? Not on the booked train, and without Railcard?
What if "the conductor took my belongings off the train" was actually providing assistance to the passenger.
Theres too much currently unknown to come to a proper conclusion.
I for one am glad to see that FTPE are not stooping to the level of the people on their FB page. The right way for the company to handle it with dignity and professionalism, and by dealing with private disputes in private even if the other party is conducting a public smear campaign using FB or the local press. If they are in the right with regards to the actual dispute, they don't want to put themselves in the wrong by how they communicate about it in public.
I can think of two well-discussed examples from this forum alone where this has worked - the man with the wheelchair and Northern (where he used internet fora and eventually had to back down) and the case of SWT and Mr Falsetto or whatever his name was (where he played the local press like a fiddle and eventually had to cease his smear campaign against them).
People like us on forums like this will remember that sort of thing for a while because we're interested in rail operations and companies. Some of the general public might get a little worked up about it on FB or in the press at the time and people might think poorly of the company involved, but it's no great loss for the company involved because it will be quickly forgotten by all but a handful of the general public. If the company drops down to their detractors' level and engages in an public slanging match it will be remembered for far longer.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If that's the case, it shouldn't have been a great issue for her to get the next train back to where she came from and pick up her missing railcard, doesn't really sound like being marooned on a desert island to me.
Imagine if she tried to board a flight without the correct ticket. I imagine the airline would not allow her onto the service. The public love to beat the railway with a big stick.
Anon Mouse
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Mar 2011
- Messages
- 1,274
But you wouldnt get past the boarding gate without a boarding card that your ticket, e-ticket or after your details have been punched into the system when you check in. You wouldnt get on an International flight without your passport, a national flight without any kind of ID. In the case of a 'wrong' operator you would not be allowed on a Virgin Atlantic Flight with a BA ticket or BMI with an Easyjet ticket.
These comparisons are nonsense. Apples and oranges. I constantly tire of the railway and the airline industry being compared. People who do this vastly misunderstand both entities. What's being discussed is Duty of Care that the railway has.
Whether anyone likes it or not, the fact remains that the railway has a legal and moral duty of care to everyone on it's property, even those on the wrong tickets. Fact!
Whether anyone likes it or not, the fact remains that the railway has a legal and moral duty of care to everyone on it's property, even those on the wrong tickets. Fact!
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
To further AlterEgo's post, the railway even has a duty of care to people on its property illegally.
Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Read some of the responses people have already given to that.
I wasn't saying about people being refused access to a station or train or being thrown out before a journey starts, but doing it mid-journey.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Except if you're flying between a UK airport and the UK, Ireland, Channel Islands or Isle of Man.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
For the third time - there are TWO incidents being referred to here, the unstaffed station refers to the other incident from the incident where the journey was made between Scarborough and York.
EM2
Established Member
I'm not sure that there are two incidents. I read it as the first person (Emma?) bringing it to attention and Lucy saying 'Yes, that did happen, I was the person involved'.
Muphry's law strikes again.
I did not type l e t apostrophe s.
My blackberry does a weird auto-correct thing, which I did disable, and looks like it has re-enabled itself on a recent software upgrade. It also changes B R (with no space) into a bracket and L T (also no space) into local time (and displays the current local time).
We don't know the facts in this case but there are a lot of people out there who the second they put a uniform on get a big chip on their shoulder and a sense of power i notice all the rail industry posters close ranks and assume all passengers are fare dodgers and the staff always right when it is more likely six of one and half a dozen of the other.
I think constant customer care training should be given to all customer facing staff in the industry with a big emphasis on common sense if the tocs dont want their reputations to end up down the toilet.
I think constant customer care training should be given to all customer facing staff in the industry with a big emphasis on common sense if the tocs dont want their reputations to end up down the toilet.
Last edited:
Every. Single. Time. What must it be like to go through life with such a cynical view of other people, particularly those who pay their wages?
northwichcat
Veteran Member
With Lucy saying 'last year' under a recent post I assumed it was a different incident. However, the person who made the original post is friends with Lucy on Facebook, so it looks like it could be her friend making a fuss on her behalf.
I find it very hard to believe that anyone these days would leave the house and not be carrying any money at all, not even a debit/credit card
I also believe that a guard wouldn't go to the lengths of removing someone's personal belongings. That to me is the actions of a guard who has been pushed to the limits, possibly through verbal abuse.
Nor does it seem from what I have quickly read, that no one else on the train intervened. If this was the case it again would suggest the passenger was being unreasonable.
I also believe that a guard wouldn't go to the lengths of removing someone's personal belongings. That to me is the actions of a guard who has been pushed to the limits, possibly through verbal abuse.
Nor does it seem from what I have quickly read, that no one else on the train intervened. If this was the case it again would suggest the passenger was being unreasonable.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Children and people on lower incomes who aren't allowed credit are given Electron or Solo cards which aren't usually accepted to purchase train tickets. They can make a cash withdrawal using them, assuming there is a working cash machine nearby.
Carrying cash on you and carrying enough cash to purchase a non-railcard discounted Anytime rail ticket are two different things.
I did Knutsford-Carlisle on a £10 Advance ticket last year, if I had forgotten the seat reservation ticket and been made to buy a new ticket I wouldn't have had £40 on me in cash.
But you would at least offer part payment rather than nothing at all.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
In the instance I described I could have used my debit card, assuming there was a working machine on board, but if the instance I described had happened to someone with a Solo/Electron card then they couldn't have.
I have seen instances where someone looking 18/19 has asked the conductor for a child ticket and the conductor has refused but the passenger then claims they only have £4 when the adult ticket is £6 and the conductor takes the £4 off them.
- Status