Your favourite livery?

[Vulcan]

Or perhaps:



(see website for better quality pics - now theres a shameless plug!)

But then I am biased as I painted it on the Ruston at the back.

 

[Fincra5]

Or perhaps:



(see website for better quality pics - now theres a shameless plug!)

But then I am biased as I painted it on the Ruston at the back.

That is a deffinate shamless plug

 

[mindfeeder]

I used to always like this.

 

[Dai.]

http://daniellelitherland.fotopic.net/p55375941.html

I always had a soft spot for this livery.

The Swallow on the intercity livery is best.

 

[Vulcan]

I also think the modern Virgin livery looks good, but it looks better on ond things like the 47 bodyshells of the Thunderbirds or the Pretendalino.

 

[yorksrob]

NSE toothpaste - over multiple slam doors for me please

 

[GospelOak117]

Network South East

 

[Aictos]

BR Liveries
First Liveries
Virgin Livery as seen in the photo of the 47 above
South Eastern High Speed Livery

I could go on but to save time, these are the main ones

 

[4SRKT]

Gotta be large logo blue, because it was amazing at the time to see a loco not in normal BR blue and yellow livery, and also dates from before the days when everyone seems to think that a railway livery must look as though it's been squeezed out of a toothpaste tube.

At my school we used to refer simply to 'new livery' and everyone new that it meant large logo. There wasn't anything else it could have meant (except 58s of course, but they were all in RF grey, so it didn't need to be said). Impossible to believe now looking at the kaleidoscope that is today's railway.

 

[Royston Vasey]

This is one of my all-time favourites. Looks great on all the locos that carried it. First time I saw this loco in this livery was on a service on the WCML, somewhere in Cumbria IIRC. The unconventional nameplate and the fact that it was gleaming in this incredible new livery (far from home!) made such an impression on me.

The revised NSE livery is probably my favourite, with the slightly darker blue, more refined stripes and blue window surrounds. Good on the 50s too.

 

[90019]

And Grand Central, obviously, gorgeous on all their stock...

I dunno, I find GC's livery is just drab and rather dull.
And the yellow on the front of their HSTs looks cr*p.

 

[Fincra5]

it has to be said i quite like NSE too.

 

[GNERman]

I dunno, I find GC's livery is just drab and rather dull.
And the yellow on the front of their HSTs looks cr*p.

It is quite a plain and simple livery, unlike some of First's recent creation, but that is part of the effect of it, you could say that BR Blue is boring, but it was effective because of that...

The yellow panel on the front of the HST's is a bit different with it wrapping around the front a bit, some like it, others don't, i personally like it, no one else has done it so it's a bit more interesting...

 

[Vulcan]

Then way grand central's livery has been applied to the 180s really brings out the good looking design of the body, which was lost beneath the busy First colour scheme. the orange stripe dipping down to the end is reminisant of those big streamlined steam engines in the US, and combined with the sharp angles of the yellow pannel make the unit look quite dynamic.

I'm a transport design student, i'm fluent in bull

 

[Ivo]

Then way grand central's livery has been applied to the 180s really brings out the good looking design of the body, which was lost beneath the busy First colour scheme. the orange stripe dipping down to the end is reminisant of those big streamlined steam engines in the US, and combined with the sharp angles of the yellow pannel make the unit look quite dynamic.

Yep, I'll go with that. Pity from my perspective is that I've never even seen a GC train, never mind travelled on one. When I finally do see one, and probably glare in awe at it, I'll probably revise my choice of Best Livery (a one-off Electrostar? ... Hello? )

 

[MCR247]

I liked central livery and when they put the (( )) on the trains. Simple, but branded the stock as theirs

 

[90019]

The yellow panel on the front of the HST's is a bit different with it wrapping around the front a bit, some like it, others don't, i personally like it, no one else has done it so it's a bit more interesting...

It just looks like an afterthought, but with no actual thought put into it, and doesn't fit the lines of the train at all.
It's the same with the yellow on FTPE's 170s, which doesn't fit the lines of the trains either.

 

[jopsuk]

It just looks like an afterthought, but with no actual thought put into it, and doesn't fit the lines of the train at all.

Exactly. I'm sure with a bit of thought enough area could have been made yellow without looking so awkward. Maybe if the lighting surround was yellow too?

Mindyou, the GC HSTs are hobbled physicially in their looks anyway- the buffer fitted power cars have never looked as good as their smooth fronted brethren.

 

[90019]

Exactly. I'm sure with a bit of thought enough area could have been made yellow without looking so awkward. Maybe if the lighting surround was yellow too?

I never understood why they didn't go for the style used on the XC HSTs for example. Even without the lower section, I would've thought it would be enough yellow.

Mindyou, the GC HSTs are hobbled physicially in their looks anyway- the buffer fitted power cars have never looked as good as their smooth fronted brethren.

I've never really minded the buffers as such, but I've always thought they look a bit like a car that's had the front bumper ripped off.

 

[poshbakerloo]

EMT/SWT livery is perfect!

 

[Ivo]

Do you work for Stagecoach, or something?

 

[poshbakerloo]

I used to always like this.

I always thought it was awful! Looked very dated and 70s even tho it was new!

 

[Vulcan]

I've never really minded the buffers as such, but I've always thought they look a bit like a car that's had the front bumper ripped off.

If I had been designing the conversion I'd have put some fairing below the buffers, even if it doesn't actually offer any improvement in streamlining or whatever. I know its only a machine and is there to serve a purpose, but the front of the power car is the first impression passengers get of a train as it enters the platform. Needs to look good.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
as per the class 90s and 91s, thinking about it.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I know its only a machine and is there to serve a purpose, but the front of the power car is the first impression passengers get of a train as it enters the platform. Needs to look good.

Passengers have absolutely no idea what it's meant to look like, can't tell the difference and really don't care! If you're lucky, they'll know what colour the train is meant to be.

This isn't meant to belittle my fellow passengers as some do on these forums, I'm just saying that the appearance of a train (other than colour, and maybe cleanliness) makes absolutely no difference to their experience. Why should they care?

 

[Vulcan]

Passengers have absolutely no idea what it's meant to look like, can't tell the difference and really don't care! If you're lucky, they'll know what colour the train is meant to be.

This isn't meant to belittle my fellow passengers as some do on these forums, I'm just saying that the appearance of a train (other than colour, and maybe cleanliness) makes absolutely no difference to their experience. Why should they care?

You'd be suprised how much a first impression makes. And if passengers really didn't care about the external appearance of trains as you said, by would TOC's invest millions of pounds investing in highly styled trains such as Pendolinos, Voyagers, 180s, 185s, ect, ect.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And indeed, why would my uni even run my Transport Design course if, as you say, it doesn't matter?

 

[SWT Driver]

The Great Western Chocolate & Cream always looks smart, a timeless classic.

 

[Aictos]

The Great Western Chocolate & Cream always looks smart, a timeless classic.

Much like the Blood and Custard one does.

 

[Royston Vasey]

You'd be suprised how much a first impression makes. And if passengers really didn't care about the external appearance of trains as you said, by would TOC's invest millions of pounds investing in highly styled trains such as Pendolinos, Voyagers, 180s, 185s, ect, ect.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And indeed, why would my uni even run my Transport Design course if, as you say, it doesn't matter?

No sorry, I'm not buying it. Rolling stock manufacturers spend money (not that it always shows) on the appearance of a train, not TOC's. Is it even millions on each design? The appearance is part of an overall design package which of course the OEM will spend some money on, it's part of their offering to potential buyers and may set it out again the competition to those procuring the trains. But it makes no odds to the users of the train.

If appearance was so crucial, why would WAGN have left their Networkers in NSE colours for 10 years? Why do EMT have (or had until recently) 158s with hybrid Northern Spirit/fTPE/Central/EMT livery? Why have so many new trains been so unattractive?

I will concede that there is some concession to styling when the HSTs were refurbished, but that was done as the light clusters were being updated to revised safety standards and so housings were of course updated with modern styling.

A buffer fitted vs conventional power car is something which really is insignificant and only an enthusiast or expert would notice. My mates and my girlfriend do not know or care what their train looks like.

Passengers care about
- Is my train on time?
- Is my train likely to get me there reliably?
- Can I get a seat?
- Is my train clean (inside most importantly)
- Can I find it easily in the station? (at a push)

Most trains are functional but ugly things, particularly with corridor connections (though the 360s probably look worse than the corridor Desiros!). HSTs, Pendolinos, Voyagers/Meridians, 180s, TGVs, 390s, 395s were designed in what looks like a sleek style, but this was much more to do with streamlining than cosmetics.

I would expect that a Transport Design course is focussed more on appropriate ergonomics, ease of use, accessible to the disabled, streamlined if required, powertrain housing... otherwise it may as well be a ridiculously specialised graphic design course.

 

[Vulcan]

If appearance was so crucial, why would WAGN have left their Networkers in NSE colours for 10 years? Why do EMT have (or had until recently) 158s with hybrid Northern Spirit/fTPE/Central/EMT livery? Why have so many new trains been so unattractive?

It doesn't look too bad / or a lack of funds for a repaint / laziness perhaps?

Most trains are functional but ugly things

Class 66, 67 & 70 i'll grant you.

HSTs, Pendolinos, Voyagers/Meridians, 180s, TGVs, 390s, 395s were designed in what looks like a sleek style, but this was much more to do with streamlining than cosmetics.

The hell they are. If there were styled purely for streamlining, then why are they not all the same ideal shape? No, trains are styled to look good. Why else would pendolinos have pointy headlights? Or the cover over the coupling? We've all seen them running with it open, so its hardly that effective for streamlining.

I would expect that a Transport Design course is focussed more on appropriate ergonomics, ease of use, accessible to the disabled, streamlined if required, powertrain housing... otherwise it may as well be a ridiculously specialised graphic design course.

Well i'm sorry if three years of my life doesn't live up to your expectations, but thats what we do. And in a few month's I'll have a degree to prove I know what i'm talking about on the subject. Do you?

 

[Royston Vasey]

The hell they are. If there were styled purely for streamlining, then why are they not all the same ideal shape? No, trains are styled to look good. Why else would pendolinos have pointy headlights? Or the cover over the coupling? We've all seen them running with it open, so its hardly that effective for streamlining.

Why make high speed trains pointy at all then?? Why not make a 140 mph tilting Turbostar? If styling is more important than streamlining, explain the "platypus" bullet train!

You have sidestepped or missed the main points of my post. Trains will be styled by the manufacturer's designers to a contemporary model, of course they will, because they are of their time. Read my post (the part you didn't quote), I never questioned that manufacturers care what the trains look like. Maybe they think making a fancy train will appeal to passengers, I am saying I don't think it does. The TOCs may or may not care (there's plenty of evidence that they don't!) but the DfT specify the tender for rolling stock anyway, not them.

A livery is important for identification of "your train" and branding, but the passenger only cares about that because it makes their life easier. Your original point was about the look of a buffered HST, an irrelevance.

It is often said on here that refurbishing a train will "make the passengers think its a new train"... this proves my point, doesn't it? Its about the interior and functional experience, not the exterior styling. Do you really believe passengers care or notice what a train looks like as long as it performs it job well?? (the other part of my post you ignored)

Well i'm sorry if three years of my life doesn't live up to your expectations, but thats what we do. And in a few month's I'll have a degree to prove I know what i'm talking about on the subject. Do you?

Your attitude is quite arrogant. I am a passenger first and foremost, more interested and knowledgable than most, but a passenger nevertheless. That is the perspective I was talking from, and so err... yes, I feel I'm perfectly qualified to post what I posted. If you're going to be a professional in this field, please take my advice!

Are you seriously telling us that there is no consideration for any other aspect of design than the exterior styling? Post a link to the prospectus maybe? If there's no consideration in designers' training for ergonomics, the interior and passenger comfort, maybe that explains the Pendolino's general lack of popularity with the public!

But at least the front looks fancy, eh?