YouGov Petition

[6Gman]

So no, I do not expect anyone else to pay, as commuters are already paying enough!

Aren't we already paying enough?

So who will be paying for this work?

 

[2HAP]

Instead of continually moaning about commuting and the cost thereof, why don't commuters either get a job near home or buy/rent a home near work. Problem solved.

 

[6Gman]

So in an attempt at getting something done about this disgusting situation I plan to start a YouGov petition asking for: train companies to be forced to install air-con on ALL trains by year end 2018, introduce legislation limiting the temperature on passenger trains to no more than is currently allowed for transporting livestock and for random checks to be carried out by rail regulators to ensure compliance with the above.

Do you realise what the legislation for livestock actually says?

The press is fond of saying "it would be illegal to transport livestock in these conditions" but they're wrong!

The regulations are as follows:

1. Only apply to journeys over 8hrs for export, or 12hrs (domestic);
2. They require functionality to maintain temperatures between 0 and 35 Centigrade;
3. They require equipment to notify the driver if temperature is outside that range.


There's another important point. Passengers can choose not to travel, or to leave a particular train. Livestock can't.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Realistic alternatives could be for all new trains to be built with air-con (which I think most already are) or/and a mid 2020s deadline for existing trains to be fitted with air-con.

"A mid 2020's deadline" sounds an awfully long way in the future for those suffering in 2016.

 

[Mag_seven]

So who will be paying for this work?

How about the private operators who were supposed to bring private finance into the rail industry rather than relying on public subsidy?

 

[ComUtoR]

Instead of continually moaning about commuting and the cost thereof, why don't commuters either get a job near home or buy/rent a home near work. Problem solved.

Because its the wages that London pays. It is still better to live outside London in cheaper housing with cheaper cost of living and commute. The higher wage and better opportunity can usually cover the cost of the commute.

Employment outside of the capital greatly diminishes and can also be said for other central metro areas. Its more than just the sheep that need to change.

 

[MCR247]

How about the private operators who were supposed to bring private finance into the rail industry rather than relying on public subsidy?

Were they? I thought the main goal was to lower cost by introducing competition (in the tendering process, and no on flows as people like to say! :roll

 

[416GSi]

To add my opinion:-
1) I don’t see the point in retrofitting airconditioning (a/c) on trains which have not been designed with this in the first instance as this would be costly and would not represent value for money.

2) I also don’t see the point of removing a train from service when a/c fails, this would cause significant disruption which is simply not required in most cases and days.

3) All that said I can see the point in installing a/c in new trains at the point they are introduced into service, i.e. build all new passenger trains with a/c as it relatively inexpensive to include upon introduction and given long-term global warming might be more frequently needed in the future.

4) I can also see the point of ensuring the a/c actually works on trains where it is fitted, due to the lack of alternative ventilation.

Ultimately the passenger will pay for this, either via ticket prices or via taxes, so let’s be pragmatic and sensible about this.

All things considered I’m sorry to say I don’t support this proposal - I would prefer the money being spent on more frequent and reliable trains which also means investment in improvement to infrastructure, track, signalling etc.

Sorry if this is not what the OP wants to hear - can I say I also use trains on the frequent basis, most of which don't have a/c!

 

[AM9]

... Ultimately the passenger will pay for this, either via ticket prices or via taxes, so let’s be pragmatic and sensible about this.

Well, actually if it is funded from general taxation, everybody contributes to something that only rail passengers benefits from so hardly fair on those that don't have any trains to catch. Anything not absolutely essential to the transport infrastructure of the nation should be funded by those who actually benefit from it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

... So no, I do not expect anyone else to pay, as commuters are already paying enough! Aren't we already paying enough?

Why do you keep mentioning 'commuters'. If there is a problem with temperatures then it affects 'passengers'.
If all these comments about 'commuters' paying thousands of pounds implies a raw deal, just remember that it is because they have season tickets which allow them anytime travel for a year. Non-season ticket holders have to pay more per mile than season ticket holders for their off-peak travel so they subsidise the season ticket holders.
On that basis, they should accept higher fares for non-essential comforts rather than expect somebody else to foot the bill.

 

[D365]

"A mid 2020's deadline" sounds an awfully long way in the future for those suffering in 2016.

Two of my trains in the last four days have had faulty air conditioning. So I don't see how it's the be all and end all of passenger comfort.

 

[MichaelAMW]

I’m guessing you’re probably not a commuter and are therefore not aware of the appalling conditions that many thousands of people have to endure daily simply to get to work. You have probably not seen elderly or frail people passing out due to the excessive heat in very cramped conditions, or seen anyone suffer a heart attack because of those same conditions and have to be rushed to hospital. You probably don’t pay thousands of pounds per year for a sub-standard service, staffed by people that seem to think their customers are entitled to less tolerable conditions than animals are legally entitled to. Therefore you probably don’t understand my concern and probably don’t care much either.

On what grounds do you think the people that staff the service, who are drivers and guards, specifically think that passengers should have poorer conditions than animals? Real evidence, please.

 

[AlterEgo]

Instead of continually moaning about commuting and the cost thereof, why don't commuters either get a job near home or buy/rent a home near work. Problem solved.

Two words: London wages.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Using the finely balanced analytic process of data averaging of all passenger travel over the entire rail network which, in reality, is just my own experience . . . I will say this:
The East Coast trainsets suffered increasing AC failures during its National Express years; those failures quickly diminished under DOR management; now that we're in the first year of control by another bus company, with its own self-interest, and its cuts to staffing and provisions, I'm experiencing more frequent AC failures again (as well as the even more frequent failures in rostering of adequate crews for the actual passenger numbers, and in providing the anticipated provisions on board, refiling toilet tanks, and in the manifest erosion of contingency arrangements).

In short, hot summers were pleasant during the management of GNER, miserable under National Express, pleasant under DOR, and miserable under Stagecoach (aka VTEC).
The big redeemng factor is that in a long train, as those are between London and Inverness or Edinburgh, having on coach at 40 degrees stil leaves a lot of other seats available. Sadly, that cuts no ice with Peterborough commuters who want every available seat, and want it cool.

 

[theageofthetra]

I had to endure tonight a relatively short ride on a 'Borisbus' from Brixton to Oval. This is an almost brand new design procured via a public sector organisation. The AC was completely useless despite the ambient temperature being no more than about 25c. The bus interior was easily above 30c. I would love to know what due diligence was undertaken when the contracts were signed at enormous taxpayers expense for yet another not-fit-for-purpose design.

 

[AM9]

I had to endure tonight a relatively short ride on a 'Borisbus' from Brixton to Oval. This is an almost brand new design procured via a public sector organisation. The AC was completely useless despite the ambient temperature being no more than about 25c. The bus interior was easily above 30c. I would love to know what due diligence was undertaken when the contracts were signed at enormous taxpayers expense for yet another not-fit-for-purpose design.

Well Johnson's political advisers first checked that the bus wasn't a bendy bus, then they verified that it had a rear platform and finally it was officially classified as a 'Routemaster' for tourist purposes.
Job done!

 

[Andrewlong]

Does anyone remember BR running summer services with Mark 1 stock pulled by a bought in freight class 47? Air con was 'achieved' by opening a window! Or those springy third rail London commuter trains which had opening windows too? I think our expectations have risen that we expect the same comfort in our trains as our cars.

 

[azz7008]

Does anyone remember BR running summer services with Mark 1 stock pulled by a bought in freight class 47? Air con was 'achieved' by opening a window! Or those springy third rail London commuter trains which had opening windows too? I think our expectations have risen that we expect the same comfort in our trains as our cars.

This forum is sometimes so conflicted with itself. Surely the aim is to attract more people out of their cars, not into them?!

 

[47802]

Two of my trains in the last four days have had faulty air conditioning. So I don't see how it's the be all and end all of passenger comfort.

Hence why I would agree that some A/C trains need to get A/C that actually works and is reliable.

Retro fitting A/C to many trains may be expensive and difficult, and I suspect unrealistic to do in the projected timescale, what would you do with a Railbus that's still running in 2018 but would be withdrawn in the next year, so I wouldn't support it. Essentially if you did something like this it would need to be at least in line with the 2020 compliance date so that trains that are not 2020 modified and scrapped wouldn't be included.

As for Stupid comments about getting a Job nearer to home, people need to go where the jobs are and where they can afford to live, perhaps the people who make those kind of comments need to try the job market.

 

[PeterC]

A mate of mine bought a flat within walking distance of his job, 6 months later the company relocated and he had a worse journey than before.

 

[northwichcat]

A mate of mine bought a flat within walking distance of his job, 6 months later the company relocated and he had a worse journey than before.

Most employment contracts state the address of your place of work with a disclaimer that it might change and you could be expected to work at another place within a reasonable distance of the address stated.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

"A mid 2020's deadline" sounds an awfully long way in the future for those suffering in 2016.

Agreed. However, do you see any ROSCO funding fitting air conditioning to the 150s and 156s (built in the mid 1980s) on top of the accessibility improvements? If not how would you get all trains fitted with air conditioning before the 150s and 156s are withdrawn?

 

[EM2]

As for Stupid comments about getting a Job nearer to home, people need to go where the jobs are and where they can afford to live, perhaps the people who make those kind of comments need to try the job market.

Just done it. Taken a new job out of London, for only a small salary increase, but more than compensated for by the reduction in rent and travel costs.