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Yorkshire adventure

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VauxhallandI

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On Saturday I will be getting several trains in Yorkshire, any tips for cash saving?

Starting in the AM at Leeds going to Halifax.

Then early evening Halifax to Hebden Bridge.

Ending the evening with Hebden Bridge to York.
 
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185143

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Cheapest for that would be WY train dayrover at £6.80. Then the absolute cheapest to get you to York would be a Horsforth to York single however you must travel via Harrogate.
 

VauxhallandI

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Cheapest for that would be WY train dayrover at £6.80. Then the absolute cheapest to get you to York would be a Horsforth to York single however you must travel via Harrogate.

Could i not get an extension to the day rover for Micklefield to York leg?

Is that £6.80 for the day rover?
 

John @ home

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I agree that the £6.80 West Yorkshire Train DayRover (I046) (DWT) (M TRAIN DAYROVER) is a suitable ticket and is valid Leeds - Halifax - Hebden Bridge - Micklefield. You would then need a separate Micklefield - York ticket, such as the £8.60 Anytime Day Single.

I don't suggest the Horsforth - York route via Harrogate ticket. It seems to me that the cheapest such ticket is the £12.30 Anytime Day Single, and this route will add about an hour to your journey.

On Saturdays, Hebden Bridge to York trains leave at 34 minutes past each hour and all call at Micklefield. Note that it is necessary for the train to stop at Micklefield to use this combination of day tickets.
 

VauxhallandI

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I agree that the £6.80 West Yorkshire Train DayRover (I046) (DWT) (M TRAIN DAYROVER) is a suitable ticket and is valid Leeds - Halifax - Hebden Bridge - Micklefield. You would then need a separate Micklefield - York ticket, such as the £8.60 Anytime Day Single.

I don't suggest the Horsforth - York route via Harrogate ticket. It seems to me that the cheapest such ticket is the £12.30 Anytime Day Single, and this route will add about an hour to your journey.

On Saturdays, Hebden Bridge to York trains leave at 34 minutes past each hour and all call at Micklefield. Note that it is necessary for the train to stop at Micklefield to use this combination of day tickets.

Good stuff, £15.40 feels like good value for that amount of travel.

My pal is meeting me from York so I will suggest he gets an anytime York to Micklefield return and a day rover.
 

John @ home

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VauxhallandI

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Once again, when using a £10.70 Anytime Day Return York - Micklefield in combination with a £6.80 West Yorkshire Train DayRover, he will have to ensure that he uses a train which calls at Micklefield. This will limit him to Northern's hourly service to Blackpool, eliminating four of the five hourly York - Leeds services.

Yes that's quite a sacrifice. I guess it would limit the return leg too, especially looking at late services.

I guess it's a value question, does it save enough to be worth it.
 

kieron

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Yes that's quite a sacrifice. I guess it would limit the return leg too, especially looking at late services.

I guess it's a value question, does it save enough to be worth it.
I doubt it. York-South Milford is only 30p more, and you're allowed to stop short in Leeds.

As this isn't the most obvious route for the ticket, a printed itinerary may be useful.
 

CaptainHaddock

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It's a pity that the Johnston Press papers have stopped printing the tokens for the Northern £10 offer as this would have been ideal for your requirements. Here's the details in the unlikely event a fellow forummer has a couple of tokens going spare.

http://www.northernrail.org/september2014
 

Tetchytyke

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I doubt it. York-South Milford is only 30p more, and you're allowed to stop short in Leeds.

That ticket is, I believe, only valid for interchange at Leeds.

Another option could be a York to Hebden Bridge off peak day return, at £14.90. BRFares says you can start short at Leeds on the outward portion and break your journey at Halifax. You will be able to catch any train between Leeds and York, not just the stopper.

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=YRK&dest=HBD&tkt=CDR
 

kieron

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That ticket is, I believe, only valid for interchange at Leeds.
You're thinking of the Group Station thing in the routeing guide, I take it? That's not why this is valid.

Doubling back is not permitted between stations which have a common routeing point (as per Step 3 of the routeing guide).
Nor is it permitted when following routes on maps between routeing points (as per Step 7).

York is a routeing point.
South Milford is associated with Leeds Group and Selby.
Both pass the fares check.
York-Selby routes aren't relevant here.
York-Leeds Group has mapped routes via Harrogate, Pontefract and Ulleskelf.

The shortest route from Leeds Group to South Milford uses the direct line via Micklefield.

Leeds is a member of Leeds Group.

There is no prohibition in the routeing guide on passing through a station on a mapped route and passing through the same station when travelling between the last routeing point and the destination.

That's why a journey from Shepperton to Richmond via Kingston is valid, even if both trains stop at Teddington en route. Teddington isn't a routeing point, so the "group stations rule" doesn't give you any extra validity here.

(Incidentally, you may need to delete any NRE cookies you have to get the links to work properly, as they still assume you want the "via" points from previous journeys if you follow a link.)
 
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yorkie

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That's an example where the Routeing Guide in Detail contradicts the Routeing Guide instructions, so it depends on your interpretation.

However I believe that the rail industry would take the view that it's only valid via Leeds for interchange purposes, so I 'd urge caution. Using station facilities at Leeds while interchanging would, of course, be permitted.
 

kieron

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That's an example where the Routeing Guide in Detail contradicts the Routeing Guide instructions, so it depends on your interpretation.
Where does it contradict this? The Routeing Guide in Detail is inconsistent with the instructions in various places, but it only refers to doubling back:

On page 4, to prohibit using an associated routeing point which makes the journey double back through the origin or destination where the fare does not permit this (whatever this means, it's not an issue here).
On page 8 steps C and D, to prohibit tracing a route on the maps which doubles back.
On page 10, to say there may be easements which allow doubling back.
On pages 15 and 17, to prohibit tracing a route on the maps which doubles back (again).

None of this suggests a reason why York-South Milford might not be valid via Leeds. The step C bit is ambiguous, but it's hard to read much into it regarding stations which aren't routeing points when it's specifically discussing a journey from Sheffield to Inverness.

In any case, Johngill100 doesn't need to use this ticket at the barriers in Leeds. The guard on the Leeds-York service doesn't know where Johngill100 went before boarding the train, and probably doesn't care given that there's no way to check. As such, I wouldn't expect this to come up at all as a problem.

I was concerned that a guard may feel that a customer is only allowed to travel York-Micklefield-South Milford, as would have been the case using recent versions of the routeing guide published before 26/9. That's why I suggested an itinerary.

I don't know how staff have been briefed about this sort of thing, though.
 

bb21

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York is a routeing point.
South Milford is associated with Leeds Group and Selby.
Both pass the fares check.

Leeds fails fares check unless I'm missing something.

If you are using the Micklefield fare as a representative for Leeds Group for fares check then the best this forum has come up with is that it is undefined.

I would be far from confident that it is definitely valid as you seem to imply.
 

TUC

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Given ATOC's view that the NRE website should be used as the guide as to whether something is a permitted route, does not the fact that entering York-South Milford via Leeds produces the above fare give a strong argument that the route should be regarded as permitted, notwithstanding the issues raised above?
 

yorkie

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You are, of course, permitted to go via Leeds. But it is unclear if a break of journey would be permitted there. Using station facilities is, of course, permitted.

If a member of staff was to deem that break of journey wasn't permitted, and followed a passenger exiting the barrier (the OP wouldn't be) to see where they go, I'd be extremely surprised to say the least.

Station facilities at Leeds include a Wetherspoons!
 

Merseysider

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Given ATOC's view that the NRE website should be used as the guide as to whether something is a permitted route, does not the fact that entering York-South Milford via Leeds produces the above fare give a strong argument that the route should be regarded as permitted, notwithstanding the issues raised above?
I'd say so. We are currently at a bit of an advantage when it comes to determining permitted routes, because if the NRE website doesn't like it, we can check the RG to see if that permits the route, and vice versa.
 

VauxhallandI

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Just to round the story off this is what happened.

Got my WY Dayrover for £6.80 and went as planned.

At the end of the evening we trundled back to Hebden B station as my pal said the train was at 10pm.

As we approached a few mins before ten a train pulled in so we chugged up and it wasn't it but luckily the train to York was 22:03.

A slow service but there you go.

The guard didn't cone through so mindful of all the horror stories on here I went a wandering at Bradford Int. first of all I asked the driver for a ticket! He had swapped ends already. I wandered down the platform to the other end and found the guard who looked somewhat baffled by me wanting a ticket. He told me to try again at Leeds when another guard would get on!

So just after East Garforth I wandered back down and knocked on the door. The guard told me that she had just cashed up and that I was having a lucky day.

With Altrincham's smashing of Halifax maybe I was.

I was till a bit worried about getting out but at 23:40 three wasn't much about.

So a footnote to the "you must go and find the guard" crew, I had a massive heavy bag, luckily someone to watch over it. If I hadn't what a mare it would have been. Especially running the gauntlet of all the ****ed uplands just looking to not like something.

Thanks for the the advice, the rover was an absolute bargain
 

yorkie

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...So a footnote to the "you must go and find the guard" crew, ...
Haha, I don't think anyone makes such a claim anymore, as it's clearly false and made-up. It's not practicable, and your experience demonstrates that.
 
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