York to Stansted Airport

[YorkC]

Hi all,

I've got the following journey coming up:

15th May, arriving before 17.30
York - Stansted Airport

19th May, flight scheduled to arrive at 20.00
Stansted Airport - York

Problem is that getting through customs etc often takes ages at Stansted. There's a 20.45 train from Stansted to Tottenham Hale that, via the Underground, officially makes the connection at Kings Cross for the 22.00 from there. There's also a 21.00 from Stansted to Tottenham Hale - I reckon that with no delays there shouldn't be any problem making this connection, but it doesn't come up on itineraries.

So I've got a couple of questions:

1) Does anyone with much experience of doing this reckon that I'd make it through customs within an hour? I've been through Stansted a few times without really thinking about how long it's taken - but remember it's taken a while.

2) Even though it's not an official connection, will I be able to use the 21.00 from Stansted to Tottenham Hale? Ticket is routed ✠EC & CONNECTNS - am I right in thinking that I can use any train on permitted routes for the non-EC part of my journey, irrespective of where I have reservations?

Cheers!

 

[yorkie]

2) Even though it's not an official connection, will I be able to use the 21.00 from Stansted to Tottenham Hale? Ticket is routed ✠EC & CONNECTNS....

Yes, but if that train, or indeed the Victoria Line, is delayed, you won't technically be covered.

 

[YorkC]

Yes, but if that train, or indeed the Victoria Line, is delayed, you won't technically be covered.

Thought that would be the case. Cheers.

 

[alastair]

Hi all,

I've got the following journey coming up:

15th May, arriving before 17.30
York - Stansted Airport

19th May, flight scheduled to arrive at 20.00
Stansted Airport - York

Problem is that getting through customs etc often takes ages at Stansted. There's a 20.45 train from Stansted to Tottenham Hale that, via the Underground, officially makes the connection at Kings Cross for the 22.00 from there. There's also a 21.00 from Stansted to Tottenham Hale - I reckon that with no delays there shouldn't be any problem making this connection, but it doesn't come up on itineraries.

So I've got a couple of questions:

1) Does anyone with much experience of doing this reckon that I'd make it through customs within an hour? I've been through Stansted a few times without really thinking about how long it's taken - but remember it's taken a while.

2) Even though it's not an official connection, will I be able to use the 21.00 from Stansted to Tottenham Hale? Ticket is routed ✠EC & CONNECTNS - am I right in thinking that I can use any train on permitted routes for the non-EC part of my journey, irrespective of where I have reservations?

Cheers!

Don't want to be negative,but this all sounds very tight time-wise.

It will help if you have hand-luggage only and won't need to wait for a bag,also if you have a new type passport with a chip you can go through the automated passport-control and by-pass the queues which can be a nightmare at Stansted. However I still feel your chances of making it are no more than 50/50,you are just depending on too many things to happen correctly and punctually,and from many bitter experiences, airports just arent like that!

Good luck if you do decide to go for it.

 

[YorkC]

Just a further question on this. I'm considering travelling down on a Not Via London (NVL from now!) routed Super Offpeak Return as I'm not going to be in a huge rush to get there, but I might be going back. The journey planner and routeing guide seems to suggest that via Finsbury Park is a valid route on this - indeed I can't see that NVL otherwise adds any additional routes to Via Ely if this isn't the case.

At which point am I entitled to purchase an excess if I want to come back via King's Cross? The East Coast journey planner allows me to reserve tickets via Tottenham Hale on a NVL and an +Any Permitted ticket. So I'm not travelling off-route as far as King's Cross Underground on a NVL ticket, even if what I want to do is excess it at this point to an +Any Permitted ticket.

1) Am I entitled to see how time's getting on (assuming I get a train that might get me to King's Cross on time), get as far as King's Cross then decide whether or not I want to purchase an excess?

2) Am I even allowed to get off at King's Cross St Pancras Underground (which isn't a London Terminal, but an Underground station!) on a NVL ticket?

3) If this is a problem, can I use Oyster between Tottenham Hale and King's Cross St Pancras Underground to bridge the gap?

4) Am I likely to have problems buying an excess at King's Cross - if I don't have time to get to a ticket office, will I be able to buy from the guard? And will I be able to even get as far as speaking to the guard to ask anyway, given that it's a PF zone?

(lot of edits to this one - sorry if someone's already started replying!)

Sorry that that's a bit of a tricky set of questions. Cheers in advance!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Don't want to be negative,but this all sounds very tight time-wise.

It will help if you have hand-luggage only and won't need to wait for a bag,also if you have a new type passport with a chip you can go through the automated passport-control and by-pass the queues which can be a nightmare at Stansted. However I still feel your chances of making it are no more than 50/50,you are just depending on too many things to happen correctly and punctually,and from many bitter experiences, airports just arent like that!

Good luck if you do decide to go for it.

Unfortunately I managed to damage the chip on my passport, so it doesn't work through the E-Passport machines. It does let me at least go through the queue, attempt to use the E-Passport machine, fail to do so, and get to the front of the queue with a human to see me through...

 

[bb21]

I think you will struggle to get through the gateline at LU stations. The ticket has no Maltese Cross, is not valid via London, and has no other obvious signs that it is valid on LU. (Yes, I know East Coast will give an itinerary that way, but LU staff may not take notice of that.) It might just be easier to use Oyster PAYG.

You should obtain your excess at the first available opportunity. I doubt you will be allowed through the gateline at King's Cross without having sorted out your excess at the ticket office. If you pass an opportunity, the excess charged onboard will be exactly the same.

 

[YorkC]

I think you will struggle to get through the gateline at LU stations. The ticket has no Maltese Cross, is not valid via London, and has no other obvious signs that it is valid on LU. (Yes, I know East Coast will give an itinerary that way, but LU staff may not take notice of that.) It might just be easier to use Oyster PAYG.

You should obtain your excess at the first available opportunity. I doubt you will be allowed through the gateline at King's Cross without having sorted out your excess at the ticket office. If you pass an opportunity, the excess charged onboard will be exactly the same.

Yeah, good point. I'll use Oyster if I do it.

What is the "first available opportunity" in this context? I understand it in the context of not having a valid ticket. The chances are that I won't have time to do it at Stansted, but I've got a valid ticket for my route from Stansted to Tottenham Hale on my existing ticket. Would the ticket office at King's Cross (if I have time) constitute the "first available opportunity" given that I have at no point gone off-route to this point (if I've used Oyster)?

I doubt I'd be allowed through the gateline at King's Cross either, but in my experience they're almost always left open at this time. I know this leaves me open to a PF if asked to present a ticket but, as I understand things 1) there's unlikely to be FCC or similar RPIs on this platform at this time, and 2) EC guards couldn't enforce this, though they could charge me an anytime single if I was judged to have passed an opportunity to pay. If I sought out the guard before I got on the train / as I got on the train, what do you reckon my chances of being able to buy an excess are?

Also, what do you mean by "If you pass an opportunity, the excess charged onboard will be exactly the same."? Isn't it the case that I could be excessed to an anytime single?

 

[bb21]

I would say that King's Cross is your first available opportunity if you use Oyster PAYG between Tottenham Hale and King's Cross St Pancras.

You cannot be Penalty Fared if a change of route excess is applicable. You cannot be sold a new ticket. The only (remote) possibility is being reported for prosecution if an RPI suspects of something dodgy, in theory, but I have never heard of this happening before in similar circumstances.

 

[YorkC]

I would say that King's Cross is your first available opportunity if you use Oyster PAYG between Tottenham Hale and King's Cross St Pancras.

You cannot be Penalty Fared if a change of route excess is applicable.

Oh really? I didn't know that.

I edited it in late, but what about the last point? What do you mean by "If you pass an opportunity, the excess charged onboard will be exactly the same"? Isn't it the case that I could be excessed to an anytime single? Or do you mean that I couldn't be charged any more than I would be at the ticket office anyway?

Thanks for your help.

 

[bb21]

I made late edits too.

No, you cannot be charged extra with this excess whether you passed an opportunity or not.

 

[YorkC]

Great - thanks a lot. So my only potential problem (other than the possibility of something dodgy being suspected, which I'd make sure wasn't an issue by seeking out the guard as I boarded) is whether the KX gateline is left open?

 

[bb21]

In reality, yes.

 

[YorkC]

Thanks a lot. You've been extremely helpful!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Argh - the only other problem is that I can't seem to get an itinerary for the return portion via Tottenham Hale and Finsbury Park. Is that likely to be a problem? NRE doesn't validate the route either way but it surely must be intended for use via Finsbury Park, given that otherwise there's no gain over buying a ticket routed via Ely (and indeed just more time restrictions on it)?

 

[bb21]

If all you want to have is an itinerary, here is what you do:

• Go to www.eastcoast.co.uk
• Put in your journey requirements, and click Timetables only.
• When the results are brought up, specify in the Trains which call at box Finsbury Park, click Update.
• Once results are up, click Buy a ticket.

You don't actually have to buy a ticket but you should see the £90.30 Route Not Via London ticket shown for your desired itinerary. This validates the route and you don't have to travel on exactly the same trains.

The argument about different tickets offering additional routes is a red herring, and is not necessarily true generally speaking.

 

[YorkC]

Ah, even if the Greater Anglia guard takes exception and claims it's not valid, it's only a matter of a <£10 excess with my railcard that I'm probably going to spend anyway.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If all you want to have is an itinerary, here is what you do:

• Go to www.eastcoast.co.uk
• Put in your journey requirements, and click Timetables only.
• When the results are brought up, specify in the Trains which call at box Finsbury Park, click Update.
• Once results are up, click Buy a ticket.

You don't actually have to buy a ticket but you should see the £90.30 Route Not Via London ticket shown for your desired itinerary. This validates the route and you don't have to travel on exactly the same trains.

Yeah, I've done that, but I can't get an itinerary for the return portion or get trains listed...

 

[bb21]

On 19th May? I can get it to show, eg. for the 1815, 1915 and 1945. It won't work for the 2015 as it routes into King's Cross, but that should not matter if you manage to avoid King's Cross. If not, you just pay the excess.

 

[YorkC]

Ah yes - I'd misread your post. Working now. Thanks again.