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York to Newcastle returns

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96tommy

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I have been looking at prices for York to Newcastle and noticed the Trans-Pennine and XC only Off Peak Day Return fares are far cheaper than the anytime fares. Can these be bought at the ticket office on the day of departure or are their only advances.?

Thank You
Tommy
 
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yorkie

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The Off Peak Return (SVR) fares routed "TPE Only" or "Cross Cntry Only", [roced at £17.90 and £18 respectively, are walk-up fares (not Advance fares) and should be available from all websites, ticket machines and ticket offices.

The "Any Permitted" fares, set by VTEC, are an absolute disgrace and a total rip-off, but is consistent with the anti-customer pricing regime deployed by Virgin.
 

96tommy

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Thank you Yorkie

Yes, the VTEC prices put a lot of people off travelling with then. I know lots of my mates who now use the coach to London from Yorkshire due to being priced put by them. Can't see it getting better in the future
 

yorkie

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Agreed; I think the intention of DfT and VTEC is to price people off rail.

Most of the trains will be fairly full anyway (with obvious exceptions, such as the late night trains) and so they would rather students without a lot of money to spend go by coach, as if they priced the trains at a sensible level to attact students, they would get more overcrowding.

It's government policy to charge high rail fares, thus encourage more road transport.

One of the few good things about privatisation is that you can get cheaper fares on certain parts of the route where there are more than one operator.

I'd say I am now more likely to make a spur of the moment decision to travel to Newcastle now than I was before the price war, and if I did, I would go for a TPE walk-up fare, because the price is so much more reasonable than VTEC's "Any Permitted" fare.

The only way VTEC would consider setting a more affordable fare on this route is if sales of YRK<>NCL "Any Permitted" fares decline massively. I certainly hope that happens.
 

Wallsendmag

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I've struggled to get a seat back from York to Newcastle on VTEC services several times in the last couple of weeks and I've sat on the floor quite a few times


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cuccir

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I've struggled to get a seat back from York to Newcastle on VTEC services several times in the last couple of weeks and I've sat on the floor quite a few times


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Very clever. My experience commuting along that line is that there's somewhere to sit on well over 90% of services. The new electronic displays help you identify where there are unreserved seats. The same may not be true for journeys down to London, as Corbyn discovered, but north of York there is usually some space.

The overcrowded services on this route are the TPE services. I'd strongly recommend choosing the Cross Country only ticket (unless you're planning to stay after 8pm):there are more services throughout the day and you are more likely to get a seat than on TPE.
 
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Tetchytyke

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I've struggled to get a seat back from York to Newcastle on VTEC services several times in the last couple of weeks and I've sat on the floor quite a few times

Well yes, it's been Edinburgh Festival. It's like that every year, for about a fortnight.

Normally the VTEC trains are significantly quieter than XC, especially the VTEC trains that terminate at Newcastle.

Of course part of the issue is that VTEC set the flow so can't bring in a cheaper TOC-only ticket. But fares on that part of the ECML have taken the pee for years, even before Virgin, but people are starting to notice now Virgin have added the Branson Bonus to already eye-watering walk-on fares.
 

aelius

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Just to clarify the TPE and XC tickets are not Off Peak Day returns but allow return within a month. Even better.
 

greatkingrat

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The Off Peak Return (SVR) fares routed "TPE Only" or "Cross Cntry Only", [roced at £17.90 and £18 respectively, are walk-up fares (not Advance fares) and should be available from all websites, ticket machines and ticket offices.

The "Any Permitted" fares, set by VTEC, are an absolute disgrace and a total rip-off, but is consistent with the anti-customer pricing regime deployed by Virgin.

It has little or nothing to do with Virgin, the fares on this route were high long before they came along.

The issue is that if you start cutting the York - Newcastle fare then that will create anomalies where splitting at York will undercut the London - Newcastle fare.
 

yorkie

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It has little or nothing to do with Virgin, the fares on this route were high long before they came along.
Yes the franchise has changed hands a number of times, so there are multiple parties to blame, but the current owning group is no exception and is in control of the fare right now.
The issue is that if you start cutting the York - Newcastle fare then that will create anomalies where splitting at York will undercut the London - Newcastle fare.
It is already the case that you can "split" to reduce fares on this line, e.g. York to Newcastle is bonkers, so you can split at places like Northallerton to bring the price down.

As for London to Newcastle, the Super Off Peak Return (SSR) is £132.70, while for London to York it's £106.20. That's a difference of £26.60. I'd accept a reduction to something around the £27 mark, which would still be expensive, but acceptable.

The equivalent fare between York and Newcastle (SVR) is a whopping £42.60. I am not suggesting cutting the fare so that it becomes cheaper than splitting at York (though it is cheaper right now to split at York if you avoid VTEC north of York), even though such splitting opportunities exist with other flows.

Splitting isn't unusual; I'd say for most journeys, you can already pay less if you either "split" or buy further and start/finish short, and the likes of TPE are making changes to even more flows, where splitting now becomes beneficial!
 

johntea

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Since when have these TPE / XC only fares been available? I remember going to Newcastle several times a few years ago and a walk up return (from Leeds admittedly) touching about £60!

For my sins I also had to visit Darlington quite a lot back then and that was about £30 alone! (Luckily back in those days I had my railcard to knock it down a bit)
 

yorkie

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Since when have these TPE / XC only fares been available? I remember going to Newcastle several times a few years ago and a walk up return (from Leeds admittedly) touching about £60!

For my sins I also had to visit Darlington quite a lot back then and that was about £30 alone! (Luckily back in those days I had my railcard to knock it down a bit)
XC Only ones have come and gone at varying times (they were originally introduced by Virgin XC but have disappeared and returned at least twice since) but TPE only are relatively new.

There is also a premium for through fares from Leeds; you need to split at York.
 

aelius

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Even in BR times, York-Newcastle gradually became very expensive. Then there seemed to be a realisation and some deals started appearing. Early on Cross Country (in Virgin days) started a realistic day ticket.
Virgin East Coast recently did a realistic day ticket but that seems to have disappeared and now its between TPE and XC. And of course, there is Grand Central if you are willing to go slow via the Durham Coast plus Tyne and Wear Metro.

Maybe there are some advantages given by competition - four companies on the same route. It's just that they are not consistently available.
 

gray1404

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Its a shame TPE and XC can't come together to do a XC & TPE fare on this flow. In a similar way there is a XC & LM fare further South on some flows.
 

OwlMan

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Its a shame TPE and XC can't come together to do a XC & TPE fare on this flow. In a similar way there is a XC & LM fare further South on some flows.

TOCs are not allowed to have a X + Y only ticket when they both operate between the stations involved (It is considered to be collusion and against competiton laws)- they are only available between stations A & B if TOC X serve A & not B and TOC Y serve B & not A.
 
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John @ home

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TOCs are not allowed to have a X + Y only ticket when they both operate between to stations involved (It is considered to be collusion and against competiton laws)- they are only available between stations A & B if TOC X serve A & not B and TOC Y serve B & not A.
That's interesting. I was unaware of this restriction on TOCs combining to offer Advance tickets. How is the rule applied when three or more TOCs combine in this way? See, for example, £29.00 Standard Class Advance Single Micklefield - Trefforest Route ATW GWR NT & TPE.
 

OwlMan

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That's interesting. I was unaware of this restriction on TOCs combining to offer Advance tickets. How is the rule applied when three or more TOCs combine in this way? See, for example, £29.00 Standard Class Advance Single Micklefield - Trefforest Route ATW GWR NT & TPE.

That is officially an ATW + Connections ticket - Also there is not a single TOC that serves both Micklefield & Trefforest

Restriction Code: AC
Valid on Arriva Trains Wales (TOC Code:ATW) and connecting services. Seat reservations are compulsory.
 

mildertduck

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(I'm not sure that this is the main post about the VTEC/XC/TPE price war about the Newcastle - York route, so if mods think this would be better elsewhere, please move it!)

I'm currently sat in a very empty VTEC train from Newcastle to York (running Newcastle to York only today due to engineering work), and we've just had a fares check.

Of the 5 people sitting in this coach, the guard had to explain to *4* of them that they had an incorrect ticket: they all had TPE-only returns to York. The guard made them alight at Darlington, and catch the TPE train about 10 minutes behind this one. I'm now the only person in this coach.

I wonder how common this is, given that the TPE only return is currently the cheapest option, and if the price war has just ended up with VTEC carrying a lot of air, and the occasional duck?

(On the plus side... I have a table, and sufficient silence to be able to work... no need for a First upgrade today!)
 

yorkie

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Yes VTEC are losing the war as hardly anyone is prepared to pay over twice the price.

Its cheaper to buy both XC only *and* TPE only returns and make *two* trips, than it is to buy one inter-available return.

The operator specific fares are priced at a level that is just about acceptable.

The VTEC priced fare is extortionate. I would never buy it.

I have heard people buying Newcastle fares at the ticket office; they always want the cheaper one and ask what times the respective train companies are running trains on each direction and then go for one or the other.

Hardly anyone is prepared to pay the bonkers price VTEC want to charge (Except maybe people on expenses!)

And yes we had a thread about this before; a Google search should find it.
 

Wallsendmag

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Remember though it isn’t a VTEC fare it’s an inter-available fare , the VTEC only fares were cheaper but limited to a 12 week duration.
I really struggle to understand why people get on the wrong TOC I mean how many people try to board the BA flight to Paris with an Air France ticket?


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Segedunum

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As a regular Newcastle to York and points south passenger, I wouldn't say that VTEC is carrying fresh air but there's been a noticeable drop in Newcastle to York and Vice Versa passengers since the introduction of the much cheaper fares.

With a Railcard, I can get a walk up return valid to come back within a month for £11.80 or £11.90. Or I can pay over twice the price and have to return the same day. Why would I ever pick the former just to allow travel on VTEC?
 
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yorkie

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Remember though it isn’t a VTEC fare it’s an inter-available fare , the VTEC only fares were cheaper but limited to a 12 week duration.
I really struggle to understand why people get on the wrong TOC I mean how many people try to board the BA flight to Paris with an Air France ticket?


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VTEC set the fare and would be able to set it at a much lower price... if they wanted to*. ;)

As for the plane comparison it's not comparable; would you be able to buy a Ryanair only fare from easyJet? Is the same framework in place in terms of the NRCoT, TSA etc for air?

No. So it's not a valid analogy in my opinion.

(Sorry of this sounds blunt; no offense intended whatsoever, I do very much value your contributions, but this is something I feel strongly about!)

* For a start, York - Northallerton is £10.60 and Northallerton - York is £20.80, for the lowest priced inter-available return fares, totalling £31.40, so if York - Newcastle was priced at £31.40 that would at least make things a bit more tolerable! It would still be well over a tenner to use XC or TPE only but some people may be prepared to pay that, and at least it wouldn't be more than twice the price!!
 

Hadders

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Remember though it isn’t a VTEC fare it’s an inter-available fare , the VTEC only fares were cheaper but limited to a 12 week duration.
I really struggle to understand why people get on the wrong TOC I mean how many people try to board the BA flight to Paris with an Air France ticket?


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For starters your boarding card is checked as you get on the plane.

Those of us on here understand the minutes of ticketing details but the average punter really doesn’t want to know or care.
 

mildertduck

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I'm now on my way home... and it's standing room only on the TPE. Hopefully some people will get off at Northallerton!
 
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