York - Eaglescliffe Excess fare - or maybe lack of

[pennine]

Hi there, last Friday (15th Feb) I bought an Any Time Return from Eaglescliffe to York with my 16 - 25 railcard (Grand Central only), priced very reasonable at £8.10.

On my return journey (16th Feb Departing York on the 1842 service) I went to the booking office at York station to ask if I could pay for an excess ticket to gain entitlement into first class. I was promptly advised by the clerk to sit in the first class carriage and seek the attention of the guard to get the excess ticket ... (I did think that this was strange as often when i traveled for the day to York from Saltburn NOT via Darlington, I used to be able to pay an excess at the booking office to use the mainline later in the evening!)

As I knew the 1st Anytime R is £14.90, I thought it would be a simple task of deducting the fare paid (£8.10) from the £14.90 which is £6.80, then divide it by 2 as I was only traveling one way on it - the way a booking clerk taught me!

I was surprised when the guard told me that excesses 'are not possible as they are two completely different products, and that she cannot charge just the £3.40 excess but instead charge £14.90. I did mention about the other route where I used to be able to excess with no problem but was informed that this sort of practice was wrong.

Obviously once I realized (pretty quickly) it was a losing battle I moved to standard class and accepted it, but thought it would be worth checking with people on here to, as it is always enlightening to get other peoples views.

Would it be worth writing to customer services?

 

[island]

I think the correct answer is somewhere in between. Excess to change ticket type is the full difference even for one leg. Y-P discount does not normally apply to walk-up 1st class tickets, so the excess would have been to the GRAND CTRL ONLY FOR undiscounted, £22.60 less £8.10 already paid giving £14.50.

 

[pennine]

I know what you're saying but the 1st class fare is clearly shown on booking engines as permitted with y p .t suggests that GC allow rail card so I would have thought that would be taken into account. Maybe one I should message Yorkie with lol.

 

[Goatboy]

I thought the Y-P only gave discounts on First Advance tickets?

 

[yorkie]

See the RailUK Fares & Ticketing Guide, here is an extract from 4.2.2 Excess procedures: Upgrade to First Class

• For ONE portion (Outward or Return) of a Return ticket, the charge is the DIFFERENCE between the price already paid and the SUM of the appropriate Standard Single for one leg and the appropriate First Single for the other leg. If cheaper then the FULL difference between the Standard Return and the First Return (as if upgrading both legs) is charged.*

*For example, if a passengers holds an Anytime Return from Middlesbrough to York and wishes to upgrade to First Class on the Outward portion then they should be charged the following. The sum of the appropriate Standard (SDS £22.60) and First Single (FDS £27.80) for this journey is £50.40. The price already paid is £36.90 so the difference to be paid by the passenger is £13.50.

So, I believe that would be £6.10 + £16.40 for the 2 x Singles giving a total fare of £22.50. The fare already paid (£8.10) should be deducted from this giving an excess amount of £14.40.

Would I expect many GC guards to be familiar with, and given appropriate training on this procedure? Err, probably not, no.

As I knew the 1st Anytime R is £14.90,

Is it? As far as I know you can't get a 16-25 Railcard discount on 1st Anytime Returns. Are Grand Central different in this respect?

 

[pennine]

See the RailUK Fares & Ticketing Guide, here is an extract from 4.2.2 Excess procedures: Upgrade to First Class

So, I believe that would be £6.10 + £16.40 for the 2 x Singles giving a total fare of £22.50. The fare already paid (£8.10) should be deducted from this giving an excess amount of £14.40.

Would I expect many GC guards to be familiar with, and given appropriate training on this procedure? Err, probably not, no.


Is it? As far as I know you can't get a 16-25 Railcard discount on 1st Anytime Returns. Are Grand Central different in this respect?

According the East coast, TPExpress and GC website it seems so as I was a bit confuzzled by it when I first saw!

 

[bb21]

The First Class Grand Ctrl Only fares are not listed in the table of fares discountable in the 16-25 Railcard section of The Manual. That said, neither are the Standard Class fares of the same routing. Make of that what you will.

 

[pennine]

hope this attachment works, but if it does work at least it verifies what I am saying!

 

[bb21]

I didn't doubt what you said. I am just saying that The Manual is unclear on this issue so you are probably unlikely to get a definitive answer aside from asking GC directly.

 

[barrykas]

I'd concur with yorkie's calculation of the Excess. The Manual says that Railcard discounts apply "where appropriate" (i.e. where the original ticket is discounted and the Railcard gives discounts on First Class fares).