Yet another ticket irregularity report post!

[Thulpft54]

Hello,

Yesterday I travelled from MCR Oxford Road to Sheffield on an invalid railcard on a TPE train. I noticed it was invalid as the conductor was approaching and asked if he would let me renew it on the spot. He said no and issued a ticket irregularity report. Looks like a fairly classic story after having read some of the other posts on here. Sounds like I can expect to be paying the price of any tickets that I bought with the expired card (which would include the outbound journey prior to when I was caught as well) plus about £150 in admin fees from what I've read in other posts. First priority for me is keeping this out of court, second is not losing so much money. So I have two main asks here:

1) Is it a bad idea to email my version of events through before I receive the letter? I saw a post here recently of someone who queried the >£10K holding amount on the fines portal. It looks like he initiated some correspondence about the incident before receiving a letter and received a smaller fine than others in terms of admin costs (only £50!).

2) Can I get some feedback on the response I have prepared (if I do end up sending this in writing it won't include the attachments I refer to):

Hi,

I received a ticket irregularity report on a train from Manchester Oxford Road to Sheffield on 17/02/24 for an invalid railcard. The railcard had expired on 21/12/23 and I had forgotten to renew it before travelling. I travelled on the previous day (16/02/24) from Sheffield to Manchester Oxford road, my ticket was not checked on this journey so it will have been invalid there too. These are the only two journeys I have taken having not realised that the railcard was expired. This is my own mistake and I am willing to pay the costs to rectify this.

When the employee was approaching me to check tickets I tried to open the railcard on the app and at this point realised it had expired on the 21st of December. I showed him my ticket and when he asked for the railcard I explained that it was expired and offered to renew it there and then. The employee said no. He took photographs of the ticket I was using to travel and the expired railcard and asked for my personal details. He then printed a ticket irregularity report and handed it to me. He highlighted his badge number (XXXXXX), the details of the journey, my personal details (name, address and date of birth) as well as the address and email address of the Transpennine Express revenue protection service. Pointing at the address he explained I would have to send details to it to have the situation rectified. After this he walked away and I renewed my railcard on the Trainline app and set a reminder for myself to renew again before February next year.

I take full responsibility for my mistake and I am keen to have the situation rectified and pay the relevant costs. For your convenience, I have attached the expired railcard, the renewed railcard I purchased directly after the incident as well as a list of my most recent ticket purchases (note that the Sheffield to Manchester Oxford road purchase for yesterday appears twice as one ticket was bought for someone else on my behalf). If you require any further information I will happily comply.

Thank you!

 

[jfollows]

1) Is it a bad idea to email my version of events through before I receive the letter? I saw a post here recently of someone who queried the >£10K holding amount on the fines portal. It looks like he initiated some correspondence about the incident before receiving a letter and received a smaller fine than others in terms of admin costs (only £50!).

Yes, it's a bad idea.
Wait until you receive something from them with appropriate reference numbers and respond to that when you do. They don't want unsolicited correspondence before that.

PS I am not familiar with the case you refer to.

 

[John R]

It’s also too long. Eg Much of the second paragraph doesn’t really add to their understanding of the situation, as it simply describes a typical interaction that inspectors will have.

 

[30907]

It’s also too long. Eg Much of the second paragraph doesn’t really add to their understanding of the situation, as it simply describes a typical interaction that inspectors will have.

Just to add: they may well investigate your purchase history before writing, but unless they refer to it I would concentrate on the actual incident.

You mention the second ticket for the same journey/date - I hope that was at the correct fare, but again I doubt it is relevant at this stage.

 

[Thulpft54]

Just to add: they may well investigate your purchase history before writing, but unless they refer to it I would concentrate on the actual incident.

You mention the second ticket for the same journey/date - I hope that was at the correct fare, but again I doubt it is relevant at this stage.

Yes the second ticket was the correct fare. The conductor did check both, it was just mine which had an issue. Hoping this doesn't create additional complications.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Feb 2024 ==

Yes, it's a bad idea.
Wait until you receive something from them with appropriate reference numbers and respond to that when you do. They don't want unsolicited correspondence before that.

PS I am not familiar with the case you refer to.

I'm referring to this case.

 

[jfollows]

I'm referring to this case.

This case appears to have been an amount in error of the order of £1,000, so of course the original poster queried it and had the amount corrected.
In normal circumstances if you respond to their request for information which will arrive in due course, and given that you don't have other unpaid fares which are shown on your online accounts, you should end up with the normal settlement offer after they've received your response.
So my original advice stands - wait until they contact you, and then follow the "usual" process.

 

[Thulpft54]

This case appears to have been an amount in error of the order of £1,000, so of course the original poster queried it and had the amount corrected.
In normal circumstances if you respond to their request for information which will arrive in due course, and given that you don't have other unpaid fares which are shown on your online accounts, you should end up with the normal settlement offer after they've received your response.
So my original advice stands - wait until they contact you, and then follow the "usual" process.

That's not how I interpreted it, unless I am missing something.

The OP in that case logged onto the fine payment portal to see an amount due exceeding £10k on the same day the ticket irregularity was issued and appears to have emailed them before receiving any correspondence.

Logging onto the portal myself I also see an amount due exceeding £10k which I am assuming is a holding amount while the investigation is underway.

 

[jfollows]

That's not how I interpreted it, unless I am missing something.

The OP in that case logged onto the fine payment portal to see an amount due exceeding £10k on the same day the ticket irregularity was issued and appears to have emailed them before receiving any correspondence.

Logging onto the portal myself I also see an amount due exceeding £10k which I am assuming is a holding amount while the investigation is underway.

Fair enough, and if you're able to log on and see an amount due it means you have a reference number you can quote if you want to write to them now.

 

[MotCO]

Does the thread title suggest that this is not your first Ticket Irregularity Report, or are you just referring to you being another passenger who fell foul of the laws? If the former, you may not be treated so lightly.

 

[Thulpft54]

Does the thread title suggest that this is not your first Ticket Irregularity Report, or are you just referring to you being another passenger who fell foul of the laws? If the former, you may not be treated so lightly.

Hi,

I now see how the title could be misleading!

This is my first ticket irregularity report. I didn't even know what one was before yesterday!

 

[Bertie the bus]

Just to add: they may well investigate your purchase history before writing, but unless they refer to it I would concentrate on the actual incident.

I'm not so sure in this case when it just involves the outward leg of the same journey. Appearing honest and fessing up, when it is only one journey and probably doesn't amount to much extra money for the OP to pay, isn't going to do their chances of getting an out of court settlement any harm at all and could improve them and there is a decent chance they will check for other journeys anyway.

 

[Thulpft54]

That isn't what happened. The letter was sent on 4 Jan and they didn't log in until 24 Jan so it was weeks or possible months (depending on how quickly TPE contacted them after the offence) after the incident.

Until they contact you you can't even quote a case number and the incident probably won't be in the system.

I'm not so sure, OP stated that they logged into the portal "on the same day" which I assumed was on the day the irregularity report was issued. I was also able to log on on the same day mine was issued and was able to see an amount due of £10024.40 using the reference number on the report.

Perhaps now what happened here is besides the point anyway, since I've decided to wait for the letter.

I'm not so sure in this case when it just involves the outward leg of the same journey. Appearing honest and fessing up, when it is only one journey and probably doesn't amount to much extra money for the OP to pay, isn't going to do their chances of getting an out of court settlement any harm at all and could improve them and there is a decent chance they will check for other journeys anyway.

I agree. Although the tickets were bought separately as two singles rather than a return journey. They weren't expensive tickets (£10.44 outbound and £16.75 inbound with railcard discounts applied). So I'm thinking just fess up and admit to the other one as well.

 

[30907]

I'm not so sure, OP stated that they logged into the portal "on the same day" which I assumed was on the day the irregularity report was issued. I was also able to log on on the same day mine was issued and was able to see an amount due of £10024.40 using the reference number on the report.

Thanks, that's useful information as to how the system works.

They weren't expensive tickets (£10.44 outbound and £16.75 inbound with railcard discounts applied). So I'm thinking just fess up and admit to the other one as well.

£25.40 is the undiscounted single fare, which fits (+/- £1).