Yet Another Dire Day On The North Downs Line

[Paul180]

Is there some source for that? The timetable has only just been changed, and there isn't the stock to go to 3tph.

TBH They don't have enough stock to run the current timetable as they have no spare unit.

 

[FGW_DID]

TBH They don't have enough stock to run the current timetable as they have no spare unit.

This old chestnut yet again ! There is enough stock to cover the timetabled services. DMU wise there are only 20 out of 25 required daily. The trouble occurs when the stopped unserviceable units exceed those 5 spares but ordinarily there are enough units for the timetable.

 

[Hugo Smith]

This old chestnut yet again ! There is enough stock to cover the timetabled services. DMU wise there are only 20 out of 25 required daily. The trouble occurs when the stopped unserviceable units exceed those 5 spares but ordinarily there are enough units for the timetable.

It’s suggested that with the introduction of class 175, some class 165/6 trains in the area might be able to transfer back, based on a forum post I saw. I agree that I’ll believe it when I see it, especially since the earlier plans for three trains per hour didn’t seem very well thought out.

 

[MasterPhillips]

This old chestnut yet again ! There is enough stock to cover the timetabled services. DMU wise there are only 20 out of 25 required daily. The trouble occurs when the stopped unserviceable units exceed those 5 spares but ordinarily there are enough units for the timetable.

Am I correct in saying there is no rostered spare unit in peak time at Reading TCD? If so, technically there isn’t enough stock, as there should really be a rostered “hot” spare.

 

[FGW_DID]

Am I correct in saying there is no rostered spare unit in peak time at Reading TCD? If so, technically there isn’t enough stock, as there should really be a rostered “hot” spare.

Not in the current diagrams but even if there was then that would still only be 21 units required from 25.

 

[DelW]

Apparently the NDL service is going up to 3TPH which i just don't see happening

It’s suggested that with the introduction of class 175, some class 165/6 trains in the area might be able to transfer back, based on a forum post I saw. I agree that I’ll believe it when I see it, especially since the earlier plans for three trains per hour didn’t seem very well thought out.

One of the problems that was identified with the previous 3tph proposal was the effect of additional level crossing closures. The A217 at Reigate was the worst case, but other crossings on the route have now been converted from AHB to full barrier crossings, with much extended road closure times. Some of them may now be problematic as well.

I don't think those crossing issues had been resolved by the time the plan was sunk by the abandonment of the 769 fleet.

 

[Farnborough]

As I understand it, the existing service is (broadly) operated by seven units, on a(n approx) 3½ hour round trip - including an approx 20 minute stand at Reading

To add a third service would require 3 or 4 extra units...

 

[JonathanH]

As I understand it, the existing service is (broadly) operated by seven units, on a(n approx) 3½ hour round trip - including an approx 20 minute stand at Reading

To add a third service would require 3 or 4 extra units...

The non-sensical 3tph service with the overtaking move at Guildford would have needed 10 units. It does seem better where the service has ended up.

 

[Siemens Staines]

As I understand it, the existing service is (broadly) operated by seven units, on a(n approx) 3½ hour round trip - including an approx 20 minute stand at Reading

To add a third service would require 3 or 4 extra units...

The 3tph North Downs service was implemented on Saturdays in the Autumn of 2020 and utilised 10 units. It ended when a number of turbos moved West which, if I recall correctly, was due to the 143s being withdrawn at Exeter.

 

[MasterPhillips]

The non-sensical 3tph service with the overtaking move at Guildford would have needed 10 units. It does seem better where the service has ended up.

I agree. If there is ever the money for extra services it should be used to run extra stopping services to Guildford, allowing the Gatwick trains to be sped up. Half hourly to Gatwick is perfectly acceptable in my opinion, and slots in with the other services it interfaces with.

 

[Deepgreen]

Grim for the last few days, with serious late running today again. I had aimed to catch the 1100 from Gomshall on Friday to go up to London for a lunch but it was cancelled, as well as the balancing move, giving a four hour gap in both directions! Several of the recent issues seem to have been unit-related and I imagine it can only worsen rapidly. I don't know whether the 769s would have had the desired reliability, but their abortion was such a short-sighted move. At least a couple of spare units (165s) might have been available to cover for 769 issues, but the stock is now on a knife edge and the service just is not reliable enough to plan around. Now the 175s are supposedly coming to GWR, who knows whether their deployment will make any difference to what has clearly become GWR's/DfT's 'Cinderella' route of choice.

 

[MasterPhillips]

Grim for the last few days, with serious late running today again. I had aimed to catch the 1100 from Gomshall on Friday to go up to London for a lunch but it was cancelled, as well as the balancing move, giving a four hour gap in both directions!

Usually an additional stop is put on the next train to ensure those stations with only a 2 hour service dont have such a gap. There’s a high chance this was done, but perhaps it was never put onto the system.

 

[Deepgreen]

Today, yet again, the train I had intended to catch this morning (0900 from Gomshall) was cancelled - I had to drive. I had also planned a trip this evening but my intended train back from Guildford (2023 arrival at Gomshall) is now also cancelled! You won't find a much more staunch advocate of rail travel than me, but this is getting farcical.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Dec 2025 ==

Usually an additional stop is put on the next train to ensure those stations with only a 2 hour service dont have such a gap. There’s a high chance this was done, but perhaps it was never put onto the system.

No trains stopped additionally.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Dec 2025 ==

My intended train from this evening - according to RTT it was "replaced with a slower train" - it wasn't; there was no "replacement" train, just the next one in the schedule!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2025 ==

Yet again today, the service is riddled with cancellations. Is there any respite in prospect for the route?

 

[Class 317]

Until Reading is allocated at least 1 additional turbo or preferably 2 the cancellations are not going away.

 

[Deepgreen]

I have written to my MP about the line's performance. Unfortunately, my MP is Jeremy Hunt, so...

 

[Minstral25]

I have written to my MP about the line's performance. Unfortunately, my MP is Jeremy Hunt, so...

So impressed with your recent posts, new job means I'll be driving through Gomshall to work as not worth risk of using GWR services

 

[yorksrob]

The route needs third rail and integration into the surrounding electric fleet.

 

[Class15]

The route needs third rail and integration into the surrounding electric fleet.

Couldn’t agree more

 

[MasterPhillips]

Unfortunately this line is a terrible mix of a too small fleet of increasingly unreliable trains, plus a seemingly permanent shortage of train crew. Really can’t see how things will improve until extra turbos get sent up after the Class 175 introduction. Even then, no doubt train crew will still be an issue.

 

[Turtle]

The route needs third rail and integration into the surrounding electric fleet.

It's screamingly obvious but
as long as the ORR continues its absurd classification of 3rd rail as a danger to life and limb then nothing will change.

 

[Deepgreen]

So impressed with your recent posts, new job means I'll be driving through Gomshall to work as not worth risk of using GWR services

It's very depressing when even rail employees (assuming your new job is such) can't go to work by train! Given the situation, though, it's hard to argue...

 

[yorksrob]

It's screamingly obvious but
as long as the ORR continues its absurd classification of 3rd rail as a danger to life and limb then nothing will change.

Indeed. The area is well used to third rail. Not to complete these infill sections is lunacy.

 

[Minstral25]

It's very depressing when even rail employees (assuming your new job is such) can't go to work by train! Given the situation, though, it's hard to argue...

No, I work in not-for-profit Sector, although I guess you could call the Railways that!

I do much prefer travelling by train to driving

 

[Deepgreen]

Indeed. The area is well used to third rail. Not to complete these infill sections is lunacy.

I completely agree, but the argument runs that the actual specific areas that would be electrified are not used to third rail. My view is that it shouldn't matter - if you trespass such as to come into contact with the third rail, you're in danger on the railway anyway. We should not be going to such lengths to protect against illegal and stupidly dangerous behaviour at the expense of sensible moves like this electrification, but that is excatly what we now do as a society.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Dec 2025 ==

Another day of mass cancellations today, with "a level crossing failure" being blamed on RTT. If it is one of the four that were replaced recently and were subject to very extensive testing, I wonder why we cannot produce these things to have the desired resilience. It's just speculation on my part that it was one of those four, of course, but the one on my road has certainly failed at least twice since it was installed!

 

[sp503]

I completely agree, but the argument runs that the actual specific areas that would be electrified are not used to third rail. My view is that it shouldn't matter - if you trespass such as to come into contact with the third rail, you're in danger on the railway anyway. We should not be going to such lengths to protect against illegal and stupidly dangerous behaviour at the expense of sensible moves like this electrification, but that is excatly what we now do as a society.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Dec 2025 ==

Another day of mass cancellations today, with "a level crossing failure" being blamed on RTT. If it is one of the four that were replaced recently and were subject to very extensive testing, I wonder why we cannot produce these things to have the desired resilience. It's just speculation on my part that it was one of those four, of course, but the one on my road has certainly failed at least twice since it was installed!

At least two units down on top of the level crossing failure…

 

[MatthewHutton]

I completely agree, but the argument runs that the actual specific areas that would be electrified are not used to third rail. My view is that it shouldn't matter - if you trespass such as to come into contact with the third rail, you're in danger on the railway anyway. We should not be going to such lengths to protect against illegal and stupidly dangerous behaviour at the expense of sensible moves like this electrification, but that is excatly what we now do as a society

I think it would be a stronger argument in Cornwall not to do third rail on safety grounds when there isn’t any at all there than in Surrey where plenty of lines are third rail.

 

[wokspotter]

I have written to my MP about the line's performance. Unfortunately, my MP is Jeremy Hunt, so...

11 cancellations so far today!
At least I have the option of SWR between Wokingham and Reading.
Good luck to anyone travelling on the rest of the line.

 

[FenMan]

11 cancellations so far today!
At least I have the option of SWR between Wokingham and Reading.
Good luck to anyone travelling on the rest of the line.

GWR have excelled themselves tonight, the penultimate Saturday before Christmas, so a big night. The last trains from Reading and Gatwick Airport are both cancelled. I hope the cost of arranging taxis for revellers trying to get home from Reading and Guildford hit GWR very hard indeed.

Maybe they are long past caring and are just shrugging their shoulders these days?

 

[Hugo Smith]

GWR have excelled themselves tonight, the penultimate Saturday before Christmas, so a big night. The last trains from Reading and Gatwick Airport are both cancelled. I hope the cost of arranging taxis for revellers trying to get home from Reading and Guildford hit GWR very hard indeed.

Maybe they are long past caring and are just shrugging their shoulders these days?

They haven't decided on a date yet for the transfer to DfT Operator so probably just a lack of though

 

[Deepgreen]

They haven't decided on a date yet for the transfer to DfT Operator so probably just a lack of though

However, no matter who operates the route, the lack of rolling stock and crews won't change quickly. I lay the blame for the stock issue squarely at the DfT's door, when they forced the jettisoning of the 769s.