• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Yellow lines

Status
Not open for further replies.

timstours

Member
Joined
20 Oct 2011
Messages
54
Location
swindon
Why are the Yellow line on platforms being pushed evermore backwards?

I noticed at Crewe that the line has a space between the tactile paving and the actual line with some crosses on some sections in between.

In my area in GWR land the yellow line is directly next to the tactile paving.

I like to photograph the train, not the platform.

Could this be why there was an incident at Carlisle recently, where so many people crossed the yellow line and into all those huge yellow crosses at the Glasgow end? What on earth are they for?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

TrainzBK

Member
Joined
9 Apr 2018
Messages
46
Honestly, the whole yellow line debacle is so confusing. The station I work at has absolutely no yellow line, whereas the other station in town has a red and a yellow line? Makes absolutely zero sense.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
34,236
Honestly, the whole yellow line debacle is so confusing. The station I work at has absolutely no yellow line, whereas the other station in town has a red and a yellow line? Makes absolutely zero sense.
You’re right. Many platforms are unnecessarily provided with yellow lines, there are rules that clearly say they are only required if fast passenger trains pass the platform, (where fast is >100 mph), or fast freight trains (>60 mph) pass. Where they are required by present rules they do seem to be positioned further from the platform edge, as are the tactiles.

But they were often painted for another reason, the risk of being hit by a slam door that was opened too early. That reason is historic, but possibly still accounts for ‘custom and practice’ at busy terminal platforms where line speed is no issue. In previous discussions I think staff have said they are also required to define the stand clear area for dispatch, but I’m not sure that’s actually in the rail group standards.

It’s also far easier to burn off and reposition a yellow line compared to adjusting a long length of tactiles (that are not in the right place by current rules), which leads to some odd situations.

Red lines I’ll leave to others, they’re comparatively rare…
 
Last edited:

mr_moo

Member
Joined
7 Sep 2009
Messages
647
Location
Cambridgeshire
The requirements for yellow lines are less clear than they should be. I've spent some time scratching my head at the relevant standard to work out exactly whay we should do in various cases.

In a nutshell, the standard (Rail Industry Standard RIS-7016-INS, issue 2, "Interface between Station Platforms, Track, Trains and Buffer Stops") can be summarised as:

1) Yellow line not required by default:
"The default arrangement shall be yellow tactiles 760 mm from the platform edge" but also "The default arrangement has been found to be the most appropriate for the majority of GB mainline platforms, but there are some platforms where alternative arrangements provide a better overall management of risk."

2) If there is some reason to do so, a yellow line and a non-yellow tactile can be used instead. There are various reasons why you might do this, such as sighting, narrow platforms, or an aerodynamic risk assesssment showing it's needed, then a yellow line will be provided instead as a marker for the safe distance from platform edge, at a distance determined by risk assessment.

Some of the confusing arrangements indicated may be the result of this paragraph too:
"The yellow line can have a beneficial impact on behaviour overall when optimally positioned and clearly identifiable. However, it is considered a weak hazard control, because it relies on passengers to notice and then decide to stay behind it. It is assumed that some passengers will cross the yellow line. Therefore it is good practice to consider additional hazard controls to reinforce or enforce the yellow line, based on the level of risk at the platform."

3) One of the normal reasons for the yellow line being placed behind the tactiles is aerodynamic risk. In particular, if trains pass at 100mph or more, then this applies:
"At a station platform, where the permissible or enhanced permissible speed on the adjacent line is greater than 100 mph (160 km/h), a yellow line shall be provided on the platform, together with warning signs. The yellow line shall be positioned so that people standing immediately behind the line are at least 1500 mm away from the platform edge."
This 1500 can be reduced where this is likely to lead to overcrowding, and other mitigation measures would likely be required, as per risk assessment.

Freight trains also need to be taken into consideration:
At a station platform, where freight trains, including container traffic but excluding those trains with the same aerodynamic profile as passenger trains, such as mail trains, pass, or are proposed to pass, on the adjacent line at speeds greater than 45 mph (75 km/h), it is good practice to take action to reduce the risk from the aerodynamic effects of passing trains to lightweight objects and vulnerable passengers on station platforms, for example, pushchairs, wheelchairs, the elderly or frail.

In terms of the safety of people and wheeled items in stations, the risk from slipstream effects can be mitigated by frequent passenger warning announcements, increased yellow line clearances from the platform edge or even segregated safe zones on the platform.

There's a lot more in the standard about how to determine the ideal yellow line position, and I've only really scratched the surface of all the things to be considered, but that's a reasonable summary.


FYI yellow hatching is a risk assessment measure under 'Managing crowd positions", and is suggetsed to be used at pinch points on platforms to discourage people from congregating in areas where there is little space to do so and/or the risks are higher.


The standard does not mention a red line so I can only guess what that's for, which would be someone decided, whilst doing a risk assessment, that the yellow line wasn't quite appropriate, and they needed something else, hence they chose red. Whether that makes any sense I don't know.
 

unlevel42

Member
Joined
5 May 2011
Messages
596
When managing encocachment on train arrival at a very busy and overcrowded platforms, the command to 'stand back' is less ambiguous than 'stand back behind the yellow/red line'.
The waiting passengers are also more responsive to the visible platform staff.
A less obvious benefit to passengers is that passengers boarding leave more space to passengers getting off. Like many I can move to one side of doors when they open and get on when the last passenger gets off(it also blocks people pushing on-before people get off ).
As a regular user of the incresingly overcrowded trains and platforms at Sheffield and Piccadilly for many decades the yellow/red lines have definately led to less pushing an shoving and more-"after you" as you notice those in more need than yourself.
 

The exile

Established Member
Joined
31 Mar 2010
Messages
9,310
Location
Somerset
In my area in GWR land the yellow line is directly next to the tactile paving.
Until recently the yellow lines at Bristol Parkway were well behind the tactiles. They’ve been repainted now in what used to be the gap between the two.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top