Yellow hatching at stations - what does it indicate?

[yorkie]

I always thought yellow hatching on station platforms indicated no waiting in this area, I.e. you can pass though but should not stop; is that correct?

However, on a recent occasion, a despatcher at Carlisle was shouting at people walking through this area as a train was pulling out, on the basis that they should not just stand clear of the yellow line with tactile paving, but also be clear of the hatched area.

If the staff member is correct, why are there two yellow lines with hatching between them, and why is the tactile paving not at the yellow like they want people to remain behind?

Image attached.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The very fact that an experienced person like you is asking means it is very unclear for all traveling public too . I certainly am very unsure.

 

[GB]

Is the hatched area on every platform at Carlisle?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The yellow line furthest from the edge is where I would expect it to be for the clear despatch zone. The hatching and the second yellow line I have not come across. It does, perhaps, make it clearer that you should not be in that area, but in that case it should go all the way to the edge of the platform. A bit like yellow box road markings? Keep out unless your exit is clear - in this case an open train door.

That said, there are areas on the platforms at Manchester Piccadilly which are yellow hatched and stretch back from the yellow line to the 'ready to start button' and 'green bat holder' in the centre of the platform. Except for platform 14 (the crowded through one) where they shout at you for even breathing, I've never see anyone shouted at to keep out of it.

As for co-ordination between yellow lines, red lines, green lines, box markings, tactile paving. You ask too much in expecting any kind of logic in development and application, consistency across the network, and an explanation of the 'rules' to the travelling public. We are here to be shouted at, it must be friendly and customer facing . Or some people are on a power trip. They could of course approach people and ask nicely, explaining the rules so they know for future reference.

 

[D6700]

"STAND BACK! STAND BACK!" I'm surprised some station platform shouters still have a voice!

At York, there used to be a large rectangle of yellow hatching between the concourse and platform 3, near the steps to the footbridge. This was where ambulances would park when required to take seriously ill people off trains. These days, that doesn't happen, with the station barricaded off (and the ambulance probably won't arrive in time anyway) and the yellow hatching has been painted black.

 

[Deepgreen]

The constant messing about with yellow paint on platforms seems to be becoming unhelpful. Most people recognise the pattern shown as a road box junction, meaning do not enter unless your exit is clear. The meaning here seems to be different. It will be confusing to passengers and I imagine many will simply ignore it anyway. It may have a specific meaning for platform staff but that alone is inadequate. There is also the issue of wear and the cost of frequent repainting such a complex pattern.

 

[DelW]

I've always assumed that it was analogous to the road equivalent, meaning that you can pass through but shouldn't stop in the area. Though I can see some logic to extending it to mean only pass through when necessary (in this case, to board a train in the platform). However, if so, that should be explained by clear signage, not by staff shouting at passengers which is far too prevalent.

 

[blimmo]

Though I can see some logic to extending it to mean only pass through when necessary

Necessary like moving from a crowded part of the platform to the exit?

 

[John Webb]

I've only been to Carlisle once, but recall, as shown in Yorkie's picture, that there is a curve on the platforms. Is the idea to give a wider space for better observation of the departing train by the dispatcher, perhaps?

 

[Aaron_TTL]

My assumption was it was to not stand there, thus giving people coming off the train room to do so.

 

[DelW]

Necessary like moving from a crowded part of the platform to the exit?

I was really thinking that it would be difficult to board a train without crossing it, but your case might apply too.

 

[stuving]

I always thought yellow hatching on station platforms indicated no waiting in this area, I.e. you can pass though but should not stop; is that correct?

However, on a recent occasion, a despatcher at Carlisle was shouting at people walking through this area as a train was pulling out, on the basis that they should not just stand clear of the yellow line with tactile paving, but also be clear of the hatched area.

If the staff member is correct, why are there two yellow lines with hatching between them, and why is the tactile paving not at the yellow like they want people to remain behind?

Image attached.

Is it not just rather old? It appears to be based on the idea that the tactile strip is understood to say do not stand here, and the hatching extends that further from the edge. It may well have been seen as needed due to the curvature. I guess it dates from when the single yellow line was still linked to high-speed through trains, before the shift to its defining a keep-clear area (at least at despatch).

 

[styles]

Is the hatched area on every platform at Carlisle?

Well in @yorkie's photo, we can see they're not on platform 5 opposite, or at least not the full length of the platform.

Is it not just rather old? It appears to be based on the idea that the tactile strip is understood to say do not stand here, and the hatching extends that further from the edge. It may well have been seen as needed due to the curvature. I guess it dates from when the single yellow line was still linked to high-speed through trains, before the shift to its defining a keep-clear area (at least at despatch).

The tactile bit doesn't mean do not stand here - it's for some disabled passengers (e.g. those using white navigation canes for example) to have a physical cue that they're at the edge of a platform.

However the usual layout is to have the yellow line, then the tactile paving, then the short gap, then the white line, then you're on the tracks; so in most cases the yellow line will effectively tell you you shouldn't be standing on the tactile paving. Some stations do use a higher contrast yellow tactile paving as the yellow line, removing the need to paint, potentially. Tactile paving is meant to highly contrast with the surrounding ground so that it can aid partially sighted people anyway.

 

[Merle Haggard]

There's the same hatching on the down fast platform at Wellingborough, in the limited width between the wall of the old goods shed and the platform edge. There's also access through the old shed to further down the platform - ie the other side of that wall.

I've been puzzled by it and I asked a member of staff who said it was 'common sense' - perhaps because they didn't know the answer ...

I'm still puzzled. If it means that you shouldn't wait in the area, but are allowed to walk though it how is standing in it dangerous but walking though it safe? I can see that there might be a danger from a passing non stop train due to turbulence, but that applies to both standing and walking - possibly more likely in the latter situation.

And if you can't stand there to board a train what happens if you arrive by train and chose to alight by a door that leads to the hatched area? Should you move to another door when you see the hatching and hope they doors don't close again in the meantime? There's no announcement on the train or warning not to use particular doors.

There are no signs explaining its meaning on the station. I can't find a general explanation anywhere else, either.

 

[Hadders]

At Stevenage, there is yellow hatching on the fast line platforms (2 and 3) between the yellow line and platform edge.

 

[Belperpete]

I'm still puzzled. If it means that you shouldn't wait in the area, but are allowed to walk though it how is standing in it dangerous but walking though it safe?

It might be safe for you to stand in that area, but by doing so you make it unsafe for other people. Such as blocking a guards or dispatchers view. Or if standing passengers block a narrow platform area, forcing other passengers who need to get past to walk through an unsafe area.

I would say that in the case of a narrow part of the platform the meaning was common sense. Much the same as a yellow box on the road, you are allowed to pass through it, but not stop and wait there, because by stopping there you would be obstructing other people.

 

[Dr Hoo]

And don’t think about standing in the ‘yellow box’ on an automatic half barrier level crossing, the barriers are down, red lights flashing, warning siren (as provided) sounding and a train(s) approaching at up to 90mph either.

 

[Merle Haggard]

It might be safe for you to stand in that area but by doing so you make it unsafe for other people. Such as blocking a guards or dispatchers view. Or if standing passengers block a narrow platform area, forcing other passengers who need to get past to walk through an unsafe area.

I would say that in the case of a narrow part of the platform the meaning was common sense. Much the same as a yellow box on the road, you are allowed to pass through it, but not stop and wait there, because by stopping there you would be obstructing other people.

I was writing in the generality, at no point did I say that I stood or considered standing in the area myself.

I (seemingly wrongly) interpreted the hatch markings as indicating danger from standing or walking through the hatched area from turbulence caused by fast trains.

I always walked through the goods shed side of the wall and never stood or even walked on the hatched area. (To explain the situation when the platform was extended for 12 car 360s (mmm) the platform was constructed both sides of the outer wall of the old goods shed and the new platform passed on one side through the old rail entrance and exit to the shed. The other side, between the goods shed wall and the platform edge is hatched.)

Because I never entered the hatched era I considered you couldn't board a train from the hatched area.I then wondered what the situation was when you found the door chosen to alight was in the hatched area.

When you say that the area should be treated like a yellow box road junction that does make sense, but there is no explanation given by signs.

Although I drive and I'm familiar with box junctions I didn't connect the rules of driving with those for using a station platform. When using a road yellow box, it's in the Highway Code.

 

[dosxuk]

The tactile paving is not set to warn of the location of the yellow line, it's set a specific distance (760mm in current Network Rail standards) from the edge of the platform. In some locations the yellow line will be located forward or backwards from that distance, depending on all sorts of other data points.

 

[Recessio]

This reminds me of the time London Underground trialled painting a "do not stand" area on platforms to stop people standing in front of doors and blocking people getting off.

However, TfL had the moronic idea to paint it bright green. It meant nobody had any idea if they were not meant to stand there -because it was a painted area - or they were meant to stand there because it was green which is a positive colour.

I think if TfL had painted it red, or made it a yellow hatched box as on NR land, it maybe would have worked and been successful at stopping people standing on platforms from blocking the doors. But I have no idea why they chose green - unless maybe someone deliberately wanted the experiment to fail, for some reason.

 

[styles]

This reminds me of the time London Underground trialled painting a "do not stand" area on platforms to stop people standing in front of doors and blocking people getting off.

However, TfL had the moronic idea to paint it bright green. It meant nobody had any idea if they were not meant to stand there -because it was a painted area - or they were meant to stand there because it was green which is a positive colour.

I think if TfL had painted it red, or made it a yellow hatched box as on NR land, it maybe would have worked and been successful at stopping people standing on platforms from blocking the doors. But I have no idea why they chose green - unless maybe someone deliberately wanted the experiment to fail, for some reason.

These were actually "do not stop" areas, rather than, "do not stand", according to the posters anyway! It may sound like a pedantic difference, but I think the reason they were green was to encourage people who are walking to continue walking, like green lanes.

It was covered extensively here: https://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2017/07/green-lanes-trial.html
(Page mainly shows a collection of photos of wide solid green lanes painted on the platform at King's Cross Underground, along with a poster which reads, "Please don't stop in the green lanes")

The other issue with them is it gave away where the doors would open, and people naturally congregate in such places to get on the trains quicker, whereas it otherwise remains the preserve knowledge of commuters who learn where's best to stand.

TfL these days do have yellow hatched areas marked do not stand, and some bespoke yellow bordered boxes with a black background which reads, "Please do not stand or wait in this areas"

Photo credit Londonist: