Yellow ends

[Goldfish62]

As I understand it, all rolling stock using NR track must have a yellow warning panel, but that LU trains are exempt. Why are they exempt?

Also, are yellow ends required for trains that operate exclusively on HS1 (eg Eurostar), which does not come under NR? If they do, then presumably ICEs would have to have a yellow warning to come through to St Pancras.

 

[devon_metro]

Because London Underground has nothing to do with Network Rail and there is no requirment for yellow front ends.

 

[MCR247]

As I understand it, all rolling stock using NR track must have a yellow warning panel, but that LU trains are exempt. Why are they exempt?

Also, are yellow ends required for trains that operate exclusively on HS1 (eg Eurostar), which does not come under NR? If they do, then presumably ICEs would have to have a yellow warning to come through to St Pancras.

ICEs will not need yellow ends

 

[swt_passenger]

Because London Underground has nothing to do with Network Rail and there is no requirment for yellow front ends.

It's a catch question though, because, (and I'm sure this is coincidence ) as raised by Alan Williams in Modern Railways this month, LU trains run on NR infrastructure beyond Queens Park on the DC lines, and from Gunnersbury to Richmond...

 

[ukrob]

Because London Underground has nothing to do with Network Rail and there is no requirment for yellow front ends.

That explains London Underground trains running over Network Rail lines every single day then.

 

[Skimble19]

Thats a very interesting point about the LU trains running on Network Rail.. Perhaps the red is considered sufficient enough?

 

[Vulcan]

Isn't it because Yellow warning panels are for warning people that are working on the track of the approaching train, but there are never people working on the track when trains are runnning on the underground? The old underground stock on the Isle of Wight has yellow ends btw.

 

[Crossforth]

Am I correct in saying that the LO trains run on Underground track north of Queen's Park rather than Underground trains running on LO track so this rule can be avoided?

 

[Clip]

Am I correct in saying that the LO trains run on Underground track north of Queen's Park rather than Underground trains running on LO track so this rule can be avoided?

LO as in London overground? Either way no, its underground trains on NR rails as they share them with Chiltern railways a little further up.

 

[Class377/5]

LO as in London overground? Either way no, its underground trains on NR rails as they share them with Chiltern railways a little further up.

No the Chiltern share the Underground tracks. One mile north of Amersham to south of Harrow-On-The-Hill is all LU track. Infact the only public crossing on the whole of LU is north of Amersham

 

[Goldfish62]

Because London Underground has nothing to do with Network Rail and there is no requirment for yellow front ends.

Apart from those lines which use NR tracks, that is......

That was precisely the point of my question.

 

[Clip]

No the Chiltern share the Underground tracks. One mile north of Amersham to south of Harrow-On-The-Hill is all LU track. Infact the only public crossing on the whole of LU is north of Amersham

Ahh i see.. Was always told other way round..

 

[The Snap]

Because London Underground has nothing to do with Network Rail and there is no requirment for yellow front ends.

That explains London Underground trains running over Network Rail lines every single day then.

Doesn't mean the two companies have the same safety standards...

Thats a very interesting point about the LU trains running on Network Rail.. Perhaps the red is considered sufficient enough?

Probably. May also be something to do with the low linespeeds, and an LU train's ability to stop in a much shorter distance than conventional NR stock.

 

[ukrob]

Doesn't mean the two companies have the same safety standards...

Which was rather the point of the original question I suspect.

 

[The Snap]

Which was rather the point of the original question I suspect.

The point I was making was that firstly devon_metro claimed that NR and LU have nothing to do with eachother, then you pointed out that NR stock runs on LU every day...

devon_metro is, in a way, entirely correct. NR and LU are completey seperate businesses and have nothing to do with eachother, so will follow different rules and bylaws. So your point dismissing his statement is not as valid as it came across...

 

[D6975]

I thought that the yellow end requirement had been modified to yellow end or headlight, but that meant that yellow ends were effectively still mandatory because headlight failure meant that a train couldn't move if it didn't have yellow panels.

Some 150/2s certainly ran without yellow ends when new, so yellow ends weren't mandatory at that time, of course that doesn't mean that it hasn't changed again since....

 

[Oracle]

This has been discussed elsewhere and as regards running on the Wimbledon branch from East Putney to Wimbledon Park [owned by LU but signalled and to NR standards], Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone and Gunnersbury to Richmond, the use of red front ends and I think headlights is sufficient. I seem to recall that in the past it was mentioned that Underground trains had a derogation. This also applied to Sara Siddons [L12] whelist running on BR tracks, as well as the Standard Stock Track Recording Train that ran on BR tracks.

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought that the yellow end requirement had been modified to yellow end or headlight, but that meant that yellow ends were effectively still mandatory because headlight failure meant that a train couldn't move if it didn't have yellow panels.

Some 150/2s certainly ran without yellow ends when new, so yellow ends weren't mandatory at that time, of course that doesn't mean that it hasn't changed again since....

As we discussed about 3 weeks ago, the requirement is not for a yellow end as such, it is for a yellow panel of 1 sq m, with a minimum side of 0.6 m - it is the livery designer's styling that extends that to much larger areas.

The group standard requires both the yellow panel and the lights - they aren't either one or the other.

 

[driver9000]

I thought that the yellow end requirement had been modified to yellow end or headlight, but that meant that yellow ends were effectively still mandatory because headlight failure meant that a train couldn't move if it didn't have yellow panels.

Some 150/2s certainly ran without yellow ends when new, so yellow ends weren't mandatory at that time, of course that doesn't mean that it hasn't changed again since....

That was done as an experiment that was ultimately dropped in favour of retaining the yellow ends.

 

[MCR247]

I thought that the yellow end requirement had been modified to yellow end or headlight, but that meant that yellow ends were effectively still mandatory because headlight failure meant that a train couldn't move if it didn't have yellow panels.

Some 150/2s certainly ran without yellow ends when new, so yellow ends weren't mandatory at that time, of course that doesn't mean that it hasn't changed again since....

So new trains are still painted with them why then....?

 

[Fincra5]

No idea, but because we have grown used to yellow ends trains would just look odd without them

 

[swt_passenger]

So new trains are still painted with them why then....?

Because as I explained earlier in the thread, and the last thread, that current Railway Group Standards require a 1 sq m yellow patch with minimum side of 0.6 m.

That's why...

 

[MCR247]

Because as I explained earlier in the thread, and the last thread, that current Railway Group Standards require a 1 sq m yellow patch with minimum side of 0.6 m.

That's why...

I wasn't replying to you, it was a kind of sarcastic reply to D6975 who said the rule no longer existed

 

[The Barlow Boy]

Yellow ends are an irrelevence nowadays. All rolling stock is fitted with high intensity headlight. The entire European network manages without yellow ends, why can't we?

 

[swt_passenger]

I wasn't replying to you, it was a kind of sarcastic reply to D6975 who said the rule no longer existed

OK my mistake, I didn't catch that...

 

[90019]

The entire European network manages without yellow ends

It doesn't.

 

[lewisf]

Some 150/2s certainly ran without yellow ends when new, so yellow ends weren't mandatory at that time, of course that doesn't mean that it hasn't changed again since....

Does anyone have any pictures of this, I can't find any evidence that this was the case.

 

[sprinterguy]

Does anyone have any pictures of this, I can't find any evidence that this was the case.

Here you go: http://www.penmorfa.com/Archive/sixteen.HTM
Scroll down to about the middle of that page. They still had yellow end doors, but without the full yellow front.
Interesting picture of one of the early nineties 158/156 combinations as well on there.

 

[starrymarkb]

Yellow ends are an irrelevence nowadays. All rolling stock is fitted with high intensity headlight. The entire European network manages without yellow ends, why can't we?

Ireland recently started requiring one. The Netherlands requires yellow or white panels (thalys seems to be an exception), most Belgian stock has yellow panels, the French require red and white stripes (only enforced for open access eg EuroCargoRail), Portugal used to require red and white front ends.

 

[LE Greys]

Ireland recently started requiring one. The Netherlands requires yellow or white panels (thalys seems to be an exception), most Belgian stock has yellow panels, the French require red and white stripes (only enforced for open access eg EuroCargoRail), Portugal used to require red and white front ends.

About time we had them on cars as well. I don't know whether it's just because I wear glasses, but I often fail to see them (especially black or silver ones) in my peripheral vision. People with far worse vision than mine probably get run over because of this. I reckon we should paint the front bumper, bonnet and front door pillars bright yellow, contrasting against the tarmac. It would also make them less attractive, therefore fewer would be sold (good all round). If it works on the railways, it ought to work on the roads.