Xplore Dundee

[RomeoCharlie71]

I didn’t suggest Xplore Dundee would be affected more than any other business. However, I assume you don’t follow other bus operators twitter accounts, as if you did, you’d know that there are lots of cancelled journeys in other cities, and also from other operators in the Dundee area.

The difference with those operators is that they haven't reduced services across their entire network twice since September/October 2021 (perhaps First Scotland East excepted).

 

[Stan Drews]

The difference with those operators is that they haven't reduced services across their entire network twice since September/October 2021 (perhaps First Scotland East excepted).

I realise facts aren’t something that are going to get in the way of your dislike for Xplore Dundee. However, if you dig a little deeper you’ll find that many other operators are running at similar service levels to Dundee, and still struggling with driver availability.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I realise facts aren’t something that are going to get in the way of your dislike for Xplore Dundee. However, if you dig a little deeper you’ll find that many other operators are running at similar service levels to Dundee, and still struggling with driver availability.

Your first assumption is not true, in fact I'd argue that Xplore Dundee are the better of the two main Dundee bus operators at the moment in terms of service reliability and communication.

I'd be intrigued to learn of the other operators running similar service levels to Xplore that are still cancelling journeys, but I worry this may be too off-topic for the moderators of this forum!

 

[Stan Drews]

Your first assumption is not true, in fact I'd argue that Xplore Dundee are the better of the two main Dundee bus operators at the moment in terms of service reliability and communication.

I'd be intrigued to learn of the other operators running similar service levels to Xplore that are still cancelling journeys, but I worry this may be too off-topic for the moderators of this forum!

You already mentioned one yourself, and if you head a little further west, you’ll find another. However, as you say, we’re going off topic, so best stick to XD before we get a row!

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Fares "review" from April 25th, all of which are rises:

2022 Fares Review

From Monday 25 April 2022, we're making some adjustments to the prices of bus tickets...

www.xploredundee.com

What's happening - and why​

Our fares have been frozen for more than two years now, meaning there's been no change to the prices you've paid since January 2020! To enable us to continue to cover the basic cost of running your service and meeting the higher fuel and electricity bills, and other increases in essential maintenance parts and equipment we have had to review that decision.

On top of normal running costs to keep the buses moving, we're also in the midst of a major fleet upgrade as Dundee prepares to introduce a Low Emission Zone in the City Centre. This includes the £7m recently invested in brand-new Electric Emeralds (with more zero-emission buses in the pipeline), plus bringing older vehicles up to modern standards with engine conversion technology. Lastly, an unfortunate consequence of worsening traffic congestion is a heavier cost to keep services running reliably. We're continually trying to improve the quality of the service we provide, which includes spending more money on more essential resources.

We've listed the changes to each ticket below. Don't forget: you can travel more and spend less in the long-run when you choose a multi-journey ticket. There's bound to be something in our flexible, unlimited travel range which suits your circumstances: whether you're out and about every day (in which case the monthly direct debit is best value for you), or you're still splitting your working life between home and the office (ideally matched with the convenient 5-DaySaver mTicket).

Tickets can be bought on the bus using cash or contactless, or downloaded in the app (just search 'Xplore' in your app store).

Young people in Scotland (aged 5-21) are eligible for free bus travel with a valid NEC card. If you haven't already, make sure to apply (either for yourself or on behalf of your child) so that your household budget can benefit from great financial savings! In the meantime, fares for children (aged 5-15) will be frozen at their current prices as the transition into the U22s continues. Young people (aged 16-21), however, will resume paying adult fares until their NEC card arrives.

List of new prices​

Adults (aged 16+)​

	Paper Ticket	mTicket	Smartcard
Short Hop	£1.90	n/a	n/a
Long Hop	£2.45	£2.35	n/a
5-Trip Bundle	n/a	£9.60	n/a
10-Trip Bundle	n/a	£19.25	£19.25
DaySaver	£4	£3.85	withdrawn
5-DaySaver	n/a	£16.00	n/a
EveningSaver	£3.20	£3.20	withdrawn
GroupSaver	£9.60	£8.55	withdrawn
WeekSaver	£14.45	£14.45	£14.45
4-WeekSaver	n/a	£53	£53.00
Direct Debit	n/a	n/a	£47.00

Students (with valid ID)​

	Paper Ticket	mTicket	Smartcard
UniHop	£1.50	£1.50	n/a
10-Trip Bundle	n/a	£13.90	£13.90
DaySaver	£3.60	£3.40	withdrawn
WeekSaver	£11.00	£10.70	£10.70

 

[317 forever]

Does anyone know whether the 41 electric buses promised for McGills will all run on the main McGills network, or will some go to Dundee?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Does anyone know whether the 41 electric buses promised for McGills will all run on the main McGills network, or will some go to Dundee?

I'm assuming based on this article that some of them will at least be for Dundee, i've quoted the relevant part below

PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

Digital newsstand featuring 7000+ of the world’s most popular newspapers & magazines. Enjoy unlimited reading on up to 5 devices with 7-day free trial.

www.pressreader.com

"Xplore Dundee is also investing in a further 22 EVs from Pelican Yutong, which means that when those are in place, the group will have more electric buses than any other Scottish operator."

 

[Surreyman]

I'm assuming based on this article that some of them will at least be for Dundee, i've quoted the relevant part below

PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

Digital newsstand featuring 7000+ of the world’s most popular newspapers & magazines. Enjoy unlimited reading on up to 5 devices with 7-day free trial.

www.pressreader.com

Could this mean that McGills/Dundee might have to source second hand 'deckers to meet Euro 6 deadlines and replace some of the older non compliant 'deckers?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Could this mean that McGills/Dundee might have to source second hand 'deckers to meet Euro 6 deadlines and replace some of the older non compliant 'deckers?

Possibly, however if I'm not mistaken some (if not all) of the BU06 plate deckers have already been upgraded to comply to Euro 6.

 

[Volvodart]

I think Xplore may have paid for some upgrades themselves, rather than through Scottish Government funding, which may be why they have not been apparent. I have since discovered the 7 Euro 3 to Euro 6 emission conversions were part of the original BEAR phase 1 funding announcement from 2018.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Could this mean that McGills/Dundee might have to source second hand 'deckers to meet Euro 6 deadlines and replace some of the older non compliant 'deckers?

The low emission zone starts at the end of May 2022, but there's a grace period of two years, so enforcement doesn't actually start until May 2024 (a bit silly IMO)

Possibly, however if I'm not mistaken some (if not all) of the BU06 plate deckers have already been upgraded to comply to Euro 6.

Only seven of the eighteen BU06 B7TLs have been upgraded to my knowledge - 2826, 2829, 2832, 2834, 2835, 2836, 2843

 

[317 forever]

I'm assuming based on this article that some of them will at least be for Dundee, i've quoted the relevant part below

PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

Digital newsstand featuring 7000+ of the world’s most popular newspapers & magazines. Enjoy unlimited reading on up to 5 devices with 7-day free trial.

www.pressreader.com

OK thanks. I am due to go to Dundee in September but the Glasgow area after the new Subway stock is in service. I am optimistic that they will all have the same interiors, meaning I miss nothing by going to Dundee before they arrive there.

 

[Stan Drews]

OK thanks. I am due to go to Dundee in September but the Glasgow area after the new Subway stock is in service. I am optimistic that they will all have the same interiors, meaning I miss nothing by going to Dundee before they arrive there.

There are no further EVs currently due for Xplore Dundee.
Details of the previous SULEB awards, and the current ScotZEB awards can be found at the following two links.

Scottish Ultra-Low Emission Bus Scheme - completed bids | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot

Scottish Zero Emission Bus challenge fund | Transport Scotland

www.transport.gov.scot

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

There are no further EVs currently due for Xplore Dundee.

So McGill's are not "investing in a further 22 EVs from Pelican Yutong" for Dundee operations? I'm also guessing "delivery of twelve hydrogen fuel cell electric buses in 2022" is no longer anticipated?

I really wish company bosses would check their facts before going to the media with such claims (or the media would confirm things with bosses before publication), similar to when the McGill's CEO was of the understanding that "the [Dundee] routes hadn’t changed in 20 years"!

 

[Stan Drews]

So McGill's are not "investing in a further 22 EVs from Pelican Yutong" for Dundee operations? I'm also guessing "delivery of twelve hydrogen fuel cell electric buses in 2022" is no longer anticipated?

I really wish company bosses would check their facts before going to the media (or the media would confirm things with bosses) with such claims, similar to when the McGill's CEO was of the understanding that "the [Dundee] routes hadn’t changed in 20 years"!

I think you’ll find it’s sloppy journalism, rather than company bosses not checking their facts!
The standard of journalism displayed across all medias is atrocious.

The development of hydrogen fuel cell buses has struggled to keep up with electric buses. I believe it’s the necessary infrastructure that is lacking/lagging behind. Who knows whether they will ever materialise or not, but pretty certain they aren’t imminent.

Other than tinkering around the edges, the core city routes have barely changed in decades. You’ve effectively got relatively direct routes out to the main schemes (estates for our English readers!) using the key radial routes in an arc from the city centre. Ninewells, Menzieshill, Charleston, St.Mary’s, Downfield, Kirkton, Fintry, Whitfield, Douglas, Broughty Ferry. Some are standalone, some link across the city centre, but the core routes to the schemes aren’t much different. I suspect that is what was being referred to, rather than any suggestion that no changes had been made for 20 years!!

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

On 26 March, the McGill's CEO apologised to customers for the continued disruption in Dundee in The Courier: (see post #234)

Mr Roberts said the company now has a “grip” on the situation, offering a timeline for the return of services to the same level as last year.

“So within the next two or three weeks the frequencies will go back up to where they were from January with the idea that by July /August they’ll be going back to where they were in November last year.

Yet here we are, five weeks later with missing journeys on the twice-reduced core network, taken from the Xplore Dundee website:

SATURDAY 30TH APRIL
Service 28
From Nethergate - 1346
From Asda Myrekirk - 1428,1644(commences Albert Square 1714), 1959, 2129, 2259
From Baldovie Sainsburys - 1527,2040,2210,2336(928)

Service 18
From Albert Square - 1434,1540
From Barns of Claverhouse - 1505,1611

Service 5a
From High Street - 1826
From Ninewells - 2010

Service 5
From Ninewells - 2210
From Barnhill - 2248(905)

Service 10
From Claypotts - 1847,2044

...which I think equates to two driver duties.

It's not much in the grand scheme of things, granted. But, if the Discover Dundee tour didn't start today, these services would likely have ran. Wouldn't it be a coincidence if these journeys were supposed to be driven by the drivers who were on the tour today, or maybe that's me dipping into tin-foil hat territory...

 

[Spsf3232]

The same could be said with BrightBus in Edinburgh but what is forgotten is that the drivers may not want to work there doing that type of work. If you take off the tour and transfer the drivers you probably find they would leave!

 

[kez19]

On 26 March, the McGill's CEO apologised to customers for the continued disruption in Dundee in The Courier: (see post #234)


Yet here we are, five weeks later with missing journeys on the twice-reduced core network, taken from the Xplore Dundee website:

...which I think equates to two driver duties.

It's not much in the grand scheme of things, granted. But, if the Discover Dundee tour didn't start today, these services would likely have ran. Wouldn't it be a coincidence if these journeys were supposed to be driven by the drivers who were on the tour today, or maybe that's me dipping into tin-foil hat territory...

The day before there was a 17 missing at 1346 from Whitehall and some 28s missing (Friday)

 

[Jordan Adam]

The same could be said with BrightBus in Edinburgh but what is forgotten is that the drivers may not want to work there doing that type of work. If you take off the tour and transfer the drivers you probably find they would leave!

That's a false equivalence. Brightbus was already set up and established long before the current national driver shortage, why would one operator axe a service that is established and profitable in favour of one that likely isn't making much money at the moment, in contrast Xplore have launched their tour while their main network is still operating to essentially pre-pandmic Sunday service levels and yet they're still missing out runs each day.

 

[vla50]

What are the former registrations of the 2 Dundee Open Toppers?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

What are the former registrations of the 2 Dundee Open Toppers?

2850 and 2851 were registered BF60 UUC and BF60 UUE respectively

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

That's a false equivalence. Brightbus was already set up and established long before the current national driver shortage, why would one operator axe a service that is established and profitable in favour of one that likely isn't making much money at the moment, in contrast Xplore have launched their tour while their main network is still operating to essentially pre-pandmic Sunday service levels and yet they're still missing out runs each day.

The fundamental problem with the industry is it’s privatisation creating a perfect environment where every day domestic services are hindered because private firms are going “only” where there’s money.

The reality is that in Edinburgh for example there was already established tours, there was no need for any more.

If in Dundee a tour bus should be introduced it could potentially be affecting domestic service reliability.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

If in Dundee a tour bus should be introduced it could potentially be affecting domestic service reliability.

Which is exactly what has happened. The tour service started yesterday with two drivers, the same day there were two driver duties uncovered.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Which is exactly what has happened. The tour service started yesterday with two drivers, the same day there were two driver duties uncovered.

Certainly, it's easy to say that these drivers who are operating the tours may not have been employed long with xPlore and indeed they only came on board because of the tour type of service, if it's removed they could leave again, that excuse is neither here nor there.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

(from the McGill's thread)

I've said it before regarding all the operations that do this type of work, it doesn't take drivers away from normal service as these drivers are new recruits who won't do the normal service work. It's not drivers taken from normal service and those drivers who they do employ won't stay around if the service finishes in winter. The argument that they are taking drivers from normal services which are short is invalid

In Dundee it has; a company source informs me the three drivers operating the Dundee tour used to all drive the core network. And coincidentally, on three out of four Saturdays since the tour started there have been journeys missing in Dundee.

 

[Stan Drews]

Doing something ‘different’ will always appeal to some existing members of staff, whether that is hire/tour work, or express services. Similarly, having that type of work can attract drivers to an operator. Either way, it’s unlikely to be immune from the current industry issues with retention and recruitment, but probably not going to stop enterprising operators from seeking new revenue streams.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Xplore Dundee have announced a set of network changes intended to come into effect from 15 August 2022: https://www.xploredundee.com/2022-Changes

Xplore Dundee is to respond to the phasing out of Scottish Government recovery funding by introducing timetable adjustments which will take effect from Monday 15 August.

Bus operators across the country have relied on critical funding support from the Scottish Government to keep a higher percentage of local services running since the pandemic began more than two years ago. Passenger demand has recovered significantly since the pandemic but is still at least 20% short of recovering operating costs.

Additionally, these operational costs (including wages, fuel and maintenance) have increased significantly at the same time as the shortfall in passenger revenue. Diesel and electricity bills are two of the biggest costs - and they have risen the most sharply (diesel +42% and electricity +81%), making it more expensive to keep buses moving. To make essential savings, we are removing some under-used journeys and withdrawing certain route deviations to reduce mileage whilst making every effort to limit the extent of any impact.

Daytime frequencies will also be standardised across the network: buses will run up to every 15 minutes on weekdays; every 20 minutes on Saturdays; and half-hourly on Sundays. Where routes converge, we will aim to schedule even gaps between journeys so that passengers can benefit from co-ordinated higher frequencies on busier corridors.

Read on for a route-by-route summary of proposed changes from 15 August 2022:

Service 1
Early morning loop via Whitehall Street withdrawn (all journeys to follow the standard daytime route to Courthouse Square via Ward Road)
Detour via Tesco Call Centre withdrawn due to low usage

Service 2
Re-timed to run hourly and extended to Kingsway Retail Park (via Dryburgh)

Services 5/5a
Service 5a re-routed via Arbroath Road (service 5 will remain on Broughty Ferry Road as normal)
Short-run journeys (which terminate in the City Centre) re-numbered as standard 5
Services 5/5a operationally split from service 10 at Broughty Ferry to improve reliability (by reducing knock-on delays), which means passengers should transfer to complete onward journeys

Service 6
Re-routed via Perth Road (instead of Blackness Road) and Scott Street (instead of Pentland Avenue) to create new connections to/from the West End district centre
Timetable curtailed to operate off-peak only (interworking between school bus journeys like services 2 and 23)

Service 10
Detour via Macalpine Road Shops withdrawn due to low usage
Service 10 operationally split from services 5/5a at Broughty Ferry to improve reliability (by reducing knock-on delays), which means passengers should transfer to complete onward journeys; certain journeys will start/finish at Grove Academy for pupils travelling to/from Douglas

Service 17
Short-run journeys (which terminate in the City Centre) re-numbered as standard 17

Service 18
Journey adjustments only

Service 22
Timetables revised to operate up to every 20 minutes during the day on Saturdays and half-hourly on Sundays (bringing service 22 into line with other routes across the network on weekends)
Short-run journeys (which terminate in the City Centre) re-numbered as standard 22

Service 23
No changes proposed

Service 28
Detour via Dunholm Road terminus withdrawn for route safety and simplification
Timetable revised to operate up to every 20 minutes during the day on Saturdays (bringing service 28 into line with other routes across the network)
Short-run journeys (which terminate in the City Centre) re-numbered as standard 28

Service 32
Extended into Morrisons (via Afton Way) during the day
Extension to Courthouse Square withdrawn

Service 33
Journey adjustments only

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Xplore Dundee have announced a set of network changes intended to come into effect from 15 August 2022: https://www.xploredundee.com/2022-Changes

This pleases me.

 

[kez19]

Xplore Dundee have announced a set of network changes intended to come into effect from 15 August 2022: https://www.xploredundee.com/2022-Changes

So the what was meant to happen ages ago the 5a(10) via Arbroath Road is happening now? They announced this then it was later withdrawn so I wonder if this will stick this time?

In terms of the 5a (10), when I have been on board it changes to a 10 towards Whitfield on Claypotts Road before Queen Street, coming from Whitfield it changes to a 5a at Sainsburys (nowhere near Broughty Ferry!)

The 32 to Morrisons (now isn't that a surprise!), again is this to compete with the 236 service for Claverhouse? (Xplore extending another route which is covered?), just to add but this should have happened years ago in terms of Morrisons and bus services.

As for the frequencies - so no change either? It is staying as it is? 15 min weekdays 20 min Saturdays and Sundays 30 mins, I am sure you posted a while back and I read locally that the frequencies were going to go back to normal in a "few weeks" so to me that was a lie! (not you -- Xplore).

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

In terms of the 5a (10), when I have been on board it changes to a 10 towards Whitfield on Claypotts Road before Queen Street, coming from Whitfield it changes to a 5a at Sainsburys (nowhere near Broughty Ferry!)

The 10 "officially" changes to a 5A on Balgillo Road opposite Kintail Place. I'm sure drivers change the destination where ever they like!

The 32 to Morrisons (now isn't that a surprise!), again is this to compete with the 236 service for Claverhouse? (Xplore extending another route which is covered?), just to add but this should have happened years ago in terms of Morrisons and bus services.

The changes to the 2 and 6 also "compete" with the 204, which makes me wonder if it'll end up being axed, as tendered services aren't allowed to compete with commercial ones.

As for the frequencies - so no change either? It is staying as it is? 15 min weekdays 20 min Saturdays and Sundays 30 mins, I am sure you posted a while back and I read locally that the frequencies were going to go back to normal in a "few weeks" so to me that was a lie! (not you -- Xplore).

Yes, but that was before it was announced the government pandemic recovery funding (Network Support Grant) was being ended two months earlier than anticipated.