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Xmas FGW from Waterloo

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Halsebee

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I've been looking at trains from London to Taunton on 28th Dec. They leave from Waterloo due to Reading closure. Can anyone explain the following?
I looked at the 2005 Waterloo Taunton journey on National Rail journey planner, which involves a change at Basingstoke, SWT to Basingstoke, FGW from there on, but the 2056 FGW from Basingstoke is a train from London Waterloo to Plymouth, via Westbury. Why isn't this shown as a through journey? Even more oddly, if you change Taunton to Plymouth as the destination, you still get told to change at Basingstoke onto a London Plymouth train.
 
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Via Bank

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See this thread.

I believe the anomaly in the journey planner is because the FGW services will be alighting-only towards Waterloo, and boarding-only towards the West. The intention, one assumes, is to discourage London to Basingstoke pax from filling up the HSTs.

Given that SWT run a perfectly adequate service to Basingstoke, I can't envisage this being a problem (unless, of course, you specifically want to do a HST on the SWML ;))
 

bnm

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I've been looking at trains from London to Taunton on 28th Dec. They leave from Waterloo due to Reading closure. Can anyone explain the following?
I looked at the 2005 Waterloo Taunton journey on National Rail journey planner, which involves a change at Basingstoke, SWT to Basingstoke, FGW from there on, but the 2056 FGW from Basingstoke is a train from London Waterloo to Plymouth, via Westbury. Why isn't this shown as a through journey? Even more oddly, if you change Taunton to Plymouth as the destination, you still get told to change at Basingstoke onto a London Plymouth train.

Journey Planners generally show the quickest possible journey and in this case that means SWT to Basingstoke then change. The HSTs are timed very slow between WAT and BSK. Typically the journey to Taunton will be 1/2 an hour quicker by changing at BSK. If you want the direct FGW HST this departs WAT at 1933.

If you want to force the National Rail Journey Planner to give times for the HSTs throughout then select the option to show trains by a specific operator, in this case First Great Western. Ticket booking engines appear to be showing both the direct and change at BSK options.
 

Halsebee

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See this thread.

I believe the anomaly in the journey planner is because the FGW services will be alighting-only towards Waterloo, and boarding-only towards the West. The intention, one assumes, is to discourage London to Basingstoke pax from filling up the HSTs.

Given that SWT run a perfectly adequate service to Basingstoke, I can't envisage this being a problem (unless, of course, you specifically want to do a HST on the SWML ;))

But why can't I get the FGW from Waterloo, don't particularly want to change at Basingstoke at 2100 on December evening, with children in tow.
Why aren't the FGW services just not advertised as stopping at Basingstoke on the Waterloo departure boards?
 

bnm

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But why can't I get the FGW from Waterloo, don't particularly want to change at Basingstoke at 2100 on December evening, with children in tow.
Why aren't the FGW services just not advertised as stopping at Basingstoke on the Waterloo departure boards?

Use FGWs booking engine and you can select the direct trains. 1933 is the last direct service out of Waterloo to Taunton. There is a later FGW 2045 departure from Paddington which travels via Banbury (reverses), Oxford and Bristol, arrives Taunton 0046.
 

Via Bank

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Ignore what I said - misunderstood your question :oops:

Yes, as bnm says, this does apear to be a case of the journey planner showing the fastest journey, which involves taking SWT to Basingstoke and then changing to FGW. There are two ways to force it to show the FGW direct journey from Waterloo: set it to only show direct trains (this is called "include slower trains" now), or, as said before, select FGW from the list of operators.

I'd imagine the FGW services will be advertised as not calling at Basingstoke from Waterloo, in a similar fashion to the SWT Salisbury services that don't advertise their pick-up only stops at CLJ on the departure boards.
 

starrymarkb

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But why can't I get the FGW from Waterloo, don't particularly want to change at Basingstoke at 2100 on December evening, with children in tow.
Why aren't the FGW services just not advertised as stopping at Basingstoke on the Waterloo departure boards?

The HSTs are running via Staines and Chertsey* so will get overtaken by several SWT services between Waterloo and Woking. The journey planner shows the fastest route by journey time, try using the "include slower/overtaken trains option"


*HSTs are only cleared to use the Windsor side platforms of Waterloo, to prevent them jamming everthing up while they try to get from plat 19 to the fasts (which would require crossing most of the throat) they are running the long way round.
 

Nick O. Teen

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Believe me, Halsebee, you don't want to know about FGW HSTs from Waterloo to B/stoke. Some of my colleagues are learning the route that's been allocated to FGW, and it's all round the houses - deliberately, of course, so as not to block SWT services - with a 2hrs-plus journey time from B/stoke to Waterloo.

Thank heavens I'm not in that link!
 

Greenback

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Good grief, 2 hours???!!! Is the intention to force passengers into begging for replacement buses instead?
 

moonrakerz

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I've done the "HST" route via Staines and Chertsey a few times when travelling from Salisbury to Waterloo over an "engineering" weekend - to say it is slow and tortuous is an understatement !
 

swt_passenger

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Wouldn't be surprised!:D Actually, it's probably more a case of getting rid of FGW stock somewhere, as presumably there's no room to park 'em at B/stoke.

It could even be NR and the TOC taking onboard the reported customer survey preference for longer train journeys over bustitution.

How many times have posters here complained about bustitution where there's a practical diversionary route? It seems to come up every few months...
 

Dreadnought

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Good grief, 2 hours???!!! Is the intention to force passengers into begging for replacement buses instead?

Not quite 2 hrs! The ones I looked at were all timed around the 85 minute mark.

As it has already been stated you can get SWT services 40 minutes after the fGW one leaves Waterloo and still connect at Basingstoke (along as there are no problems of course!)
 

455/8

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Believe me, Halsebee, you don't want to know about FGW HSTs from Waterloo to B/stoke. Some of my colleagues are learning the route that's been allocated to FGW, and it's all round the houses - deliberately, of course, so as not to block SWT services - with a 2hrs-plus journey time from B/stoke to Waterloo.

Thank heavens I'm not in that link!

All I can say is "around the houses" is a bit of an understatement! at least the HSTs aren't having to stop at any of the stations along the Byfleet curve/addlestone line. I sign that route the HSTs are going to be using and I hate it (i think every crew that signs it hates it too), during normal running a train calling at every station takes 3 hours to perform a stopping service to weybridge bay via hounslow and staines and then back to waterloo the same way and the stations are one every 2 minutes or so. There are also only 3 train crew depots that sign that route, so everytime the mainline's shut anywhere between weybridge and clapham jct you can bet that you're going to get a rubbish job, having to work the weymouth/bournemouth/portmouth/basingstoke/Alton trains up to waterloo via addlestone & staines, sit up waterloo for about 20 minutes and bring the next service back down to woking where the crew you took off at woking originally are sat there waiting to take the train on to its destination. To make matters worse for the crews and the passengers, us train crew at woking (well most of us anyway) don't sign any routes past Basingstoke so we have no idea where trains normally split, where passengers should change for other destinations or what tickets are valid for that train, which puts us in a bad position not being able to help out we instead have to phone up either info control or national rail enquiries which doesn't make us look good or help the overall mood which topped off with the train taking longer to get to waterloo isn't good, instead of a 25 minute trip from woking to waterloo it takes about 45-1 hour extra. As all the trains stop at clapham jct you have to perform SDO, which making sure all the passengers are in the right part of the train it all becomes a bit of a nightmare!

We at woking have a couple of jobs on a sunday that you sign on work a stopper to wateloo via staines sit at waterloo for 30-40 minutes work the same train back to woking via staines again a stopper then have a break. After your break you do it all again, up to waterloo with a stopper sit around 30-40 mins then bring the same train back to woking as a stopper, in total we stop at 94 stations on that job working only 2 trains! :s


Last year when the mainline was closed at surbiton all we were doing at woking was either working weymouth/Bournemouth/Portsmouth trains shuttling them up and down between woking and waterloo, working stopping services or if you were lucky you got to pilot the salisbury crews on the 158/9's over the same route, as we didn't sign the traction to work the trains and the Salisbury crews didn't sign the route. When we first heard FGW were going to be running trains up from baskingstoke to waterloo, we were told we may have to pilot the crews of learn the stock but think either someone was making it up or the plan was changed. Now the FGW guards or train managers have learnt the route and the trains will be driven by either Freighliner or EWS/DBS, so I was told by one of the FGW guards route learning on one of my trains earlier this year.

Alan
 
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TGV

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I sign that route that the HSTs are going to be using and I hate it (i think every crew that signs it hates it too) during normal running a stopper calling at every station takes 3 hours to perform a stopping service to weybridge bay via hounslow and staines and then back to waterloo the same way, theres a station every 2 minutes or near enough and since there are only 3 train crew depots that sign that route everytime the mainline's shut anywhere between weybridge and clapham jct you can bet that you're going to get a rubbish job of having to work the weymouth/bournemouth/portmouth/basingstoke/Alton trains up to waterloo via addlestone & staines, sit up waterloo for about 20 minutes and bring the next service back down to woking where the crew you took off at woking originally are sat there waiting to take the train on to its destination and to make matters worse for the crews and the passengers, us train crew at woking (well most of us anyway) don't sign any routes past Basingstoke so we have no idea where trains normally split, where to change for other destinations or what tickets are valid for that train, which puts us in a bad position not being able to help out we instead have to phone up either info control or national rail enquiries which doesn't make us look good or help the overall mood and to top it all off the train takes longer to get to waterloo instead of a 25 minute trip from woking to waterloo it instead takes about 45-1 hour extra and becuase all the trains stop at clapham you have to do SDO making sure all the passengers are in the right part of the train, it becomes a bit of a nightmare!

I tell you what's a nightmare... your punctuation! That lot above is ONE sentence! I kinda gave up reading it - gave me a headache.

I get the idea though - the HST's are being routed round the houses and every pile of bricks between Waterloo and Basingstoke. So yeah, the best option seems to be to get SWT to Basingrad and change there.

Someone mentioned space at BSK for stabling HST's - yes there is loads of space - sidings on both sides of the mainline East of the station and sidings to the West of the station (all long enough for 12 car trains), but they're usually full of EMU's and DMU's for SWT, or some kind of infrastructure train.
 

455/8

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Sorry about that my punctuation and spelling aren't the best in the world, add on top it was late and well I think my above post is the result of all that.


Alan
 
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