XC Voyagers

[Domh245]

That's a bit of a surprise, can you enlighten us any further? All cars are powered so it ought to be able to move, could it be something to do with tilt not having another car to talk to?

And having recently suffered journeys on overcrowded 2-car 150s (and a 4-car Voyager) in Cornwall I would suggest or propose that they could be used there, maybe with a new intermediate car to add capacity.

I think it is that the end cars don't have air compressors, but I may be wrong.

 

[AndrewE]

I think it is that the end cars don't have air compressors, but I may be wrong.

That could easily be fixed then...

 

[robbeech]

I'm not sure how many seats there are in them, i realise this could be maximised. They are currently lower due to their 125mph running and the rules regarding space between passengers and the front although if they were turned into a smaller train for local running with just 2 end cars this could likely be ignored if the maximum permissible speed was reduced to 100mph*

*or whatever the limit is for this.

 

[gg1]

I think it is that the end cars don't have air compressors, but I may be wrong.

Now you mention it the compressor sounds right, it was discussed here when Virgin converted their 4 car Voyagers to 5 resulting in a few spare driving cars.

That could easily be fixed then...

Depends if there's sufficent space underfloor, I honestly don't know. Even if it was possible I doubt it would worth the trouble to create a low capacity twin car unit.

 

[MCR247]

For use on what routes exactly? They will have lower capacity than every other 2 car train around as well as being fuel hungry

 

[AndrewE]

Now you mention it the compressor sounds right, it was discussed here when Virgin converted their 4 car Voyagers to 5 resulting in a few spare driving cars.



Depends if there's sufficent space underfloor, I honestly don't know. Even if it was possible I doubt it would worth the trouble to create a low capacity twin car unit.

... but if they were turned into relatively "low speed" units with more seats and a middle trailer car we have a new-ish DMU for not a lot of money. A redundant Mk 3 spliced in would give us a "Piggie," as opposed to the old Tadpoles in the South-East!

 

[class 9]

After being built in 2000-2001, have they ever had any sort of refresh in this time?

 

[Darandio]

After being built in 2000-2001, have they ever had any sort of refresh in this time?

They have been hoovered. I think?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I try my best to ignore the usual wibble about making them into razor blades since whilst they are definitely beginning to show their age, operationally they run like a Grand National winner and are well capable of doing so for many more years to come yet. Yes, CrossCountry have awful capacity issues (which when they try to resolve them everyone kicks off because someone loses a train service...) but in terms of the actual trains themselves I honestly don't find Voyagers that bad to travel on. A decent, tasteful refurbishment will see them fine for a good while yet.

 

[Ash Bridge]

They have been hoovered. I think?

As well as above I think they had new seat covers fitted shortly after the Arriva takeover about 2009/10?

 

[xotGD]

Cross Country should stop running north of Newcastle and use the freed up sets to operate more doubled-up services once TPE start operating on the route.

 

[dk1]

Cross Country should stop running north of Newcastle and use the freed up sets to operate more doubled-up services once TPE start operating on the route.

I agree to a point but Derby & Sheffield will lose direct links to Scotland.

 

[takno]

Aren't XC getting some of the HSTs from other operators. I'd guess they'd hold off from a refurb until after that, just because even withdrawing a single set at

Cross Country should stop running north of Newcastle and use the freed up sets to operate more doubled-up services once TPE start operating on the route.

That would spoil the direct Scotland-Devon train I'm more than happy to pay a premium for. Now the new TPE route I don't see the point of at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They have been hoovered. I think?

I’m not convinced some have ;D

 

[broadgage]

Better still we might be able to buy bits of them in Morrisons in a couple of year iether containing shaving gell or stuck to a plastic handle and marketed as a disposable razor!

It is a tempting thought, but realistically I can not support scrapping relatively trains when capacity is such a problem.
Better IMHO to build some proper, full length trains for the longer distance and busier routes and cascade the wretched voyagers to secondary routes on which lower quality units will be acceptable, doubled up when passenger numbers justify this.

 

[sprinterguy]

Aren't XC getting some of the HSTs from other operators.

Nope. There's no suggestions that they are.

 

[takno]

Nope. There's no suggestions that they are.

Pity. I've only been half-concentrating on the HST cascade and I may have been confusing that with the existing XC sets getting replacement doors.

 

[sprinterguy]

Pity. I've only been half-concentrating on the HST cascade and I may have been confusing that with the existing XC sets getting replacement doors.

Wishful thinking (including that from myself) suggested that they might get their hands on the three ex-Grand Central sets, but it sounds like they're already accounted for with another existing HST operator.

 

[Roast Veg]

Couldn't the spare driving cars be used as a sprinter type train, if the main fleet was reformed to 6 cars?

No, the driving cars do not have a compressor on board to release the brakes with.

 

[bramling]

I try my best to ignore the usual wibble about making them into razor blades since whilst they are definitely beginning to show their age, operationally they run like a Grand National winner and are well capable of doing so for many more years to come yet. Yes, CrossCountry have awful capacity issues (which when they try to resolve them everyone kicks off because someone loses a train service...) but in terms of the actual trains themselves I honestly don't find Voyagers that bad to travel on. A decent, tasteful refurbishment will see them fine for a good while yet.

There certainly needs to be something of a rework to the fleet. As someone else posted, changing the interiors to something more like the Meridians, and supplementing the XC fleet so that more Voyagers can run doubled up. Either more HSTs, or have the Meridians join the XC fleet.

This still leaves some underlying issues like high running costs relative to the passengers carried, but there's not much that can be done about that.

 

[sd0733]

In my opinion the answer would be to order some long (7-9-car) bi-mode IEP type units to cover the NE-SW long distance corridor in the same way the HSTs do, this would replace the current HSTs and by my reckoning somewhere in the region of 9 Voyager diagrams which would allow doubling up on the remaining Newcastle-Southampton corridor at least between BHM and RDG.
On the West Coast side, an idea I thought could be to use the spare 185s on the Manchester-Bristol route, if all ran as 6 cars would be an increase over the mostly 4 car voyagers on that route. This seems to have 2 distinct passenger flows so most people don't seem to travel through Birmingham. The 185s can also then continue to use Ardwick and the released voyagers can be used to strengthen the Manchester-Bournemouths.
Whilst not perfect it could act as a short term capacity boost until the WC 221s and/or 222s start to become available.

 

[route:oxford]

In my opinion the answer would be to order some long (7-9-car) bi-mode IEP type units to cover the NE-SW long distance corridor in the same way the HSTs do.

Transfer the Manchester to Reading/Southampton element of the franchise to Great Western along with an order for a suitable number (say 10/12) of 6-car 80x units.

That would release Voyagers back to XC.

 

[221129]

So much utter rubbish in this thread. The only way you'll solve the capacity issues on XC is either brand new stock or a major time table 're write. Or more likely both. But every attempt at a rewrite people start crying about losing services that should never have been there in the first place.

 

[route101]

Aren't XC getting some of the HSTs from other operators. I'd guess they'd hold off from a refurb until after that, just because even withdrawing a single set at

That would spoil the direct Scotland-Devon train I'm more than happy to pay a premium for. Now the new TPE route I don't see the point of at all.

Feel that XC services to SW should route down WCML then Brum like they used too . Services down ECML could go to Nottingham .

 

[221129]

Feel that XC services to SW should route down WCML then Brum like they used too . Services down ECML could go to Nottingham .

No thank you

 

[route101]

No thank you

Only services from Scotland !

 

[221129]

How on earth would that work and what benefit would that bring?

 

[Starmill]

Couldn't the spare driving cars be used as a sprinter type train, if the main fleet was reformed to 6 cars?

With considerably fewer seats than a 2 car 158? I guess they could but they would be very expensive and very little use.

And all for what? What's needed is more stock, chopping and changing things is not going to achieve much.

 

[devonexpress]

When I asked XC they said they had no plans to do anything with them. If they where given a good strip out, some mods to make the space inside a bit bigger, maybe put more wiring under floor etc, then have some new panels to make more room. Then all they need is better seats, maybe a bit thinner but more padding on them?, with XC moquette and carpets and job done.

Overall they are not bad trains, the problem is the interior design, and how they are treated by the TOC. Myself I think more Class 802s would be better for XC, and then move the Voyagers, to Hull Trains, Transpennie, and Chiltern.

 

[MonsooN]

My main issue with Voyagers is that they're uncomfortable. I'm 6'3" and I find them very, very uncomfortable if I'm sitting next to someone. If I've got two seats to myself or one of the extra leg room seats at the end of the carriage, they're OK, but if I'm in a regular airline seat, I can't even fit my knees behind the seat in front.

I know there's profit to be had, but I'd like to see a refurb where they spread out the seats a little better - (perhaps lining them up with the windows) so that taller people like me can sit more comfortably.