XC Southampton service extensions

[wibble]

The Bournemouth starters are always packed (in my experience) by the time it hits Reading. When I travelled up from Scum to Brum, I'd change at Reading on to the Reading-starter which was much more pleasant - new queue for the toilet or buffet!

 

[swt_passenger]

A few possible answers:

Will this not need extra stock?

Services extended to Southampton, with a 30 minute turnaround time, adds 2.5 hours to each diagram.

The 30 minute turnround time already exists, coz they won't be using it at Reading anymore. The extra might be achieved with only one extra unit/day, as they only need to add 2 hours.

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Do ECS runs still go to Poole on Sundays from Bournenmouth?

Yes, I noticed this a few weeks ago.

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It is, used to host the stopper to poole before they extended and merged to Waterloo.

Sure? It isn't signalled for passenger moves - there is a plan to reinstate it as a passenger platform in the next resignalling.

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It must have been when it was in regular use, wouldn't it?

I couldn't tell you if it still is or not, if only you asked me that 3 hours ago and I could of had a look.

It is regularly used for stabling DC units - I think the third rail stops a few yards before the buffers though, alongside the old parcels platform.

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The other thing is I'm really can't see where there would be capacity here at WIN to turn around a unit, when we only have 2 platforms and 5 passenger + freight services an hour during the day/ evening, not that I know much about pathing and timetables. Any ideas?

The ECS will arrive from Eastleigh - no extra capacity needed at Winchester

 

[Greenback]

I heard a rumour from a contact in XC that they would be running to Weymouth again, if only for the Olympics in 2012.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I heard a rumour from a contact in XC that they would be running to Weymouth again, if only for the Olympics in 2012.

If they wanted to get people closer to the action, they could run along the old tramway too Or they couldnt because they are going to tear it up when they prep for the Olympics

 

[Greenback]

I'm sure Arriva will be very excited at the thought of large numbers of new passengers who have never complained about their services (yet).

Witht he Olympics, though, I;m interested to see where the stock for all of these proposed extra services is going to come from. Surely they can't be thinking of reducing services elsewhere to cover for the hordes going to the Olympic venues?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I'm sure Arriva will be very excited at the thought of large numbers of new passengers who have never complained about their services (yet).

Witht he Olympics, though, I;m interested to see where the stock for all of these proposed extra services is going to come from. Surely they can't be thinking of reducing services elsewhere to cover for the hordes going to the Olympic venues?

Stranger thing shave happened.............

 

[swt_passenger]

I heard a rumour from a contact in XC that they would be running to Weymouth again, if only for the Olympics in 2012.

I just can't see Olympic sailing being a spectator sport myself. When they say 'Weymouth' they really mean 'Weymouth and Portland'. The sailing will be based in and off Portland. You'll need a pretty good pair of binoculars to see anything from Weymouth, and the availability or otherwise of the tramway is totally irrelevant.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

and the availability or otherwise of the tramway is totally irrelevant.

Thats why I said it

 

[Greenback]

I just can't see Olympic sailing being a spectator sport myself. When they say 'Weymouth' they really mean 'Weymouth and Portland'. The sailing will be based in and off Portland. You'll need a pretty good pair of binoculars to see anything from Weymouth, and the availability or otherwise of the tramway is totally irrelevant.

People will go to where the events are taking place even if it turns out they can't actually see much. Although personally I plan to be in New Zealand throughout the whole thing!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Despite the sky high costs, I hope the 2012 Olympics falls flat on its face. We cant afford it...

 

[Greenback]

It will have cost us far too much whether it falls on its face or not. I hope it goes well, to avoid us being an international laughing stock...

 

[jamesontheroad]

hope it goes well, to avoid us being an international laughing stock...

Best not let any international visitors use XC to get there, then...

 

[Greenback]

Comparing the 444's with the Voyager would not show XC in a very good light! As I said to my contact, I hope it (XC running to Weymouth) doesn't happen!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Think I jumped a 444 Woking-Hook one morning (the one thats all stations west of Woking-Weymouth) and they are really nice trains, they put the 220/221s to shame, no doubt about thet

 

[Greenback]

My first trip on a $$ was a couple of weeks ago. I was very impressed!

I can imagine a foreing Olympic visitor travelling down to Weymouth from London on a SWT 444, then inadvertently getting on a XC Voyager to go to Birmingham a few days later. They will probably get off at Bournemouth (or even earlier) and go straight home!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I know this is harder than what it sounds, but couldn't theye put on HSTs just fpor the days when there looms to be vast numbers for sailing?

 

[Greenback]

I imagine that the proposals have come from DfT, and that XC would require additinal funding from somewhere to meet the additional costs. As has been pointed out, there is no guarantee that sufficient additional passengers will go to Weymouth to justify the additional services.

 

[thefab444]

quail Map No.5 says............ yes it is

It is third railed, but it does not have a proper starting signal, only a shunt, and thus was taken out of passenger use about 10 - 15 years ago.

I imagine the extended XC services will arrive into Southampton platform 4 (xx17 is probably a PTT time, I imagine the WTT time will be more like xx13), then ECS out to either of the goods loops, then back into platform 1 ready for departure.

 

[swt_passenger]

I imagine the extended XC services will arrive into Southampton platform 4 (xx17 is probably a PTT time, I imagine the WTT time will be more like xx13), then ECS out to either of the goods loops, then back into platform 1 ready for departure.

In the weeds of the report I'm about to mention they reckon the layover will be in the Up Goods Loop, but read on...

I found this detailed report online which went to the timetable disputes panel about this XC service. It is basically SN's complaints about NR rejecting their bid to run the Brighton to Southampton service in a loop via Eastleigh and the Airport after the morning peak.

In the details of XC's track access application, they refer to the dispute panel's decision being made in their favour, and to cut a long story short it seems that the XC service extension prevents SNs from being extended via the Airport. That is also a franchise commitment, but it seems NR have the final say so, and they've decided XC wins out on better passenger connectiviity.

It seems like the SN Southampton and SWT Poole services both needed the same path between Eastleigh and St Denys? As it stands now, the SWT Poole seems to arrive on P3A about XX13 just before the SN Brighton terminates in P2A at about XX15. What seems to be happening is that the SWT Poole service has been flexed to allow for the XC, presumably running just ahead or just behind.

There was a lot of other info in the report, but as far as I could see NR also won't allow most of the proposed SN services to reverse in Eastleigh's platforms as planned, because they'll be conflicting with freights most hours of the day.

Will be interesting to see how it all pans out once the new timetable is in the public planners (in about 3 weeks time?) - but nothing is ever as simple as you'd expect...

I haven't quoted directly from the report, as it's one of those pdfs that is restricted access, and a zipped file as well. If anyone wants to read it themselves it is the 'submission' linked alongside 'TTP 350' on this webpage here: Access Disputes Panel

 

[ivanhoe]

i cant see why they dont extend leicester services to terminate at peterborough?

I would prefer that Leicester Birmingham Trains were given back to EMT. it's a farce that X Country actually run the Leicester to Birmingham local service. I would even say that the Birmingham Stansted was also taken off X Country.

 

[MCR247]

I would prefer that Leicester Birmingham Trains were given back to EMT. it's a farce that X Country actually run the Leicester to Birmingham local service. I would even say that the Birmingham Stansted was also taken off X Country.

Leicester - Brum & Stansted - Brum need to stay the same operator

 

[tbtc]

Leicester - Brum & Stansted - Brum need to stay the same operator

True.

I can see the logic in giving these services to EMT, as they don't really tie into the other XC services (they serve New Street, but don't interwork)

If you gave them to EMT there's scope to reintroduce the Birmingham - Leicester - Nottingham route (no use as a through journey, but trips like Birmingham - Loughborough for the University may be worthwhile)

 

[ivanhoe]

Leicester - Brum & Stansted - Brum need to stay the same operator

Please explain why ? For the benefit of whom? Certainly not the passengers! When Central run these services, the East Midlands benefited. There were opportunities to run services from Lincoln to Brum via Leicester and Nuneaton. I could even stomach London Midland operating the Leicester Local Service but X Country has no raison d'être to run a service that is basically a local regional service only. As for the Stansted service, I would also give it to EMT.

 

[Invincibles]

It is a diagram share, trains run Stansted - Birmingham - Leicester - Birmingham - Stansted

I struggle to see how changing operator would make any difference, with refurbed 170s the route has pretty good trains.

 

[tbtc]

...or even potential for London - Kettering - Corby - Melton - Leicester - Nuneaton - Birmingham...

 

[MCR247]

Please explain why ? For the benefit of whom? Certainly not the passengers! When Central run these services, the East Midlands benefited. There were opportunities to run services from Lincoln to Brum via Leicester and Nuneaton. I could even stomach London Midland operating the Leicester Local Service but X Country has no raison d'être to run a service that is basically a local regional service only. As for the Stansted service, I would also give it to EMT.

It is a diagram share, trains run Stansted - Birmingham - Leicester - Birmingham - Stansted

I struggle to see how changing operator would make any difference, with refurbed 170s the route has pretty good trains.

Theres you reason
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True.

I can see the logic in giving these services to EMT, as they don't really tie into the other XC services (they serve New Street, but don't interwork)

If you gave them to EMT there's scope to reintroduce the Birmingham - Leicester - Nottingham route (no use as a through journey, but trips like Birmingham - Loughborough for the University may be worthwhile)

Well they tie in to the Cardiff ones. And giving EMT all of the XC 170s would mean that there would be no 0637 NOT - BMH, but I suppose that is minor, considering the prices the charge on the one from Nottingham/Beeston to past Banbury etc

 

[222007]

I would prefer that Leicester Birmingham Trains were given back to EMT. it's a farce that X Country actually run the Leicester to Birmingham local service. I would even say that the Birmingham Stansted was also taken off X Country.

Im quite happy working for XC thankyou i actually think XC make a pretty good job of running these services - performance is quite good compared to central trains and XC have refurbed the entire 170 fleet to a reasonable standard.

 

[tbtc]

Well they tie in to the Cardiff ones

Do they interwork?

 

[Pumbaa]

It is a diagram share, trains run Stansted - Birmingham - Leicester - Birmingham - Stansted

I struggle to see how changing operator would make any difference, with refurbed 170s the route has pretty good trains.

Oh yes I forgot that re-tweaking the timetable was impossible. If DfT wanted to split the routes, they would and tell NR to get on with it. Our system may be watered down but at least the NR planners hold the flag high to try and rescue our sinking ship of a railway.

 

[MCR247]

Do they interwork?

No, but I suppose if there was problems then they can and also it means there is less ECS services.