You've not paid £5 for a seat reservation, so this is irrelevent. Even if you had, your problem is with the TOC. The TOC has failed to reserve you a seat. You don't have a reserved seat - this is an issue for the TOC not the person sat in an unreserved seat which was supposed to be, but was not, allocated to you.
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XC Reservations
- Thread starter Goatboy
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You've not paid £5 for a seat reservation, so this is irrelevent. Even if you had, your problem is with the TOC. The TOC has failed to reserve you a seat. You don't have a reserved seat - this is an issue for the TOC not the person sat in an unreserved seat which was supposed to be, but was not, allocated to you.
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RailUK Forums
And if you had paid £5, additionally to the above points, you'd be entitled to a refund of said reservation charge.
No, I realise you're not saying I'm implying that about you - I'm just remembering that they were abusive, back then.
I know you'd be frustrated - I would be, too. But, with respect, I still feel the way to deal with this is not trying to evict people yourself, but to protest to the Conductor.
Trying to evict someone yourself. I don't think we have any rights or powers to do so.
The scenario that other seats may be reserved too, without it being immediately obvious, was covered by my earlier comment that I would protest to the conductor immediately on XC trains, rather than try to find another seat myself.
ValleyLines142
Established Member
No I know, I was just saying this for argument's sake.
No, I realise you're not saying I'm implying that about you - I'm just remembering that they were abusive, back then.
I know you'd be frustrated - I would be, too. But, with respect, I still feel the way to deal with this is not trying to evict people yourself, but to protest to the Conductor.
Oh no I know, I just wanted to emphasise that anyway.
That's a fair point, but I'd worry it'd look like I'm trying to get the said passenger into a lot of trouble! And of course I wonder whether it's worth getting the TM involved. When I say I 'evict' them, I don't mean to physically grab them out of my seat, but just to say the situation. I've never had to deal with a passenger who has refused to move, and I hope that remains the case.
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Who knows? - you might be, if you sought his/her advice instead of trying to solve the problem yourself!
ValleyLines142
Established Member
Is such a point stated anywhere in official documentation?
Who knows - you might be, if you sought his/her advice instead of trying to solve it yourself!
Well, as I say, I don't try and cause trouble. I try and be as reasonable as I can, and it generally works, so I must be doing something right!!
If so, then that's generally good and would solve all problems. I certainly would try to enforce reservations if I was a TM. Imagine if it was a match day and there were extra long-distance trains. Can you imagine if the reservation system failed? We'd all be right royally screwed!
I should bloody hope so! Ha!
How would I be able to prove to the TOC in question (or whoever such a situation has to be dealt with) that my 'reservation' was no longer available?
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I'm sure you're right, but, in my limited experience, when it comes down to it, most TMs understandably avoid confrontation.
I say "my limited experience" - I have only known three instances where the conductor has been involved in a potential dispute - the two I quoted earlier, where one conductor just shrugged her shoulders and walked away and the second where he upgraded me to 1st Class without even approaching the man in "my" seat.
The third was when a VT conductor announced when we were leaving Preston "the seat reservations have not been put up - please be aware there may be passengers boarding at Wigan and Warrington who may believe you are in their seats" and then stayed in his office for the whole journey.
dvboy
Established Member
On the other hand, I've been on a busy evening Birmingham-Scotland train where the seat reservations weren't working, a party of about 6 or 7 boarded at the last minute and found their reserved seats occupied with resistance from some passengers, and took it upon themselves to loudly make a point of moving to first class, in full earshot of the shop staff, who must have contacted the train manager as about 10 minutes later they all came back with him through into standard, and they were still sorting out who sat where when I got off at Wolverhampton.
On a number of occasions recently, the train managers have announced that people should sit in their reserved seats, presumbaly in the hope that the reservations will have downloaded by the time the train gets to the next stop.
On a number of occasions recently, the train managers have announced that people should sit in their reserved seats, presumbaly in the hope that the reservations will have downloaded by the time the train gets to the next stop.
Which is a frankly unacceptable inconvenience to those without reserved seats.
Had my "Collective Nouns" thread in the Quiz section not been so prematurely closed, I would today have added the following:-
An incandescence of Cross-Country passengers who think they have an empty, reserved seat awaiting them.
An agility of hopeful Cross-Country passengers who've had to travel at the last minute, been stung for the full fare, and think they've been lucky in finding an empty unreserved seat.
An incandescence of Cross-Country passengers who think they have an empty, reserved seat awaiting them.
An agility of hopeful Cross-Country passengers who've had to travel at the last minute, been stung for the full fare, and think they've been lucky in finding an empty unreserved seat.
Manchester77
Established Member
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mackenzieblu/3673027358/in/set-72157620590367811
maybe a reservation system like this?
maybe a reservation system like this?
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