XC Reservations

[Goatboy]

So, XC have again changed the way the reservation system works on Voyagers.

If a seat is reserved for part of a journey only, instead of saying, for example, 'Reserved from Bristol to Leeds' when the train is at Taunton, it now says 'Available but may reserved later on' or words to that effect. It will then update to say 'Reserved from Bristol to Leeeds' only once the train arrives at Bristol.

At first I thought this was the 10 minute reservation system - but it's not, and it's present throughout the train on every reserved seat (ie, every seat on the train if its a 4 coach Voyager).

This means that if you board an XC train early on in its journey, it is now impossible to select a seat you can safely occupy without fear of being ejected. I tried to get a 10 minute reservation this morning an hour before departure (The 5th such time I've tried this) only to get the usual 'No availability on this service' message. So instead I picked a seat that was 'Available but may be reserved later on'.

The train then packed out and I was duly turfed out of my seat to stand the rest of the way once we arrived at the next station and the reservation display magically changed to reflect the fact it was booked :roll:

I asked the TM about it - and she said it was causing them huge amounts of problems. At every station along the route in my coach I witnessed some sort of dispute between passengers between somebody who had sat in a seat which was 'Available but may be reserved later on' and somebody who had booked it, once the train arrived at the station it was booked from and the display updated.

What are they playing at? What possible use to anyone is it to have a seat reserved but with no way of telling where its reserved from?

I honestly thought it was the 10 minute system until I asked the train manager and she explained how the new system worked. It must be driving the staff crazy as I can imagine plenty of shouting matches between staff and disgruntled passengers.

Why are they doing this?

 

[All Line Rover]

This is awful! They should scrap this and the 10-minute reservation gimmick, and stick with the simple reservation system that VT operates (and, according to Max, EMT).

Why are they doing this?

None of us will know as we don't work for XC, but why not email XC to ask/complain?

 

[Max]

I noticed the same thing when I travelled with them last week, seems completely illogical to be honest. I cannot understand why they haven't implemented a similar system to the Meridians, whereby the display says either 'Available' or 'Reserved from ....'.

 

[Roverman]

That sounds overly complicated and a nightmare. I tried to reserve a seat recently only to get rejection text messages for 3 trains in a row. I ended up boarding the later of them to find not only was it half full but there were plenty of seats I could have been allowed to reserve as their reservations didn't start until after my destination!

God only knows what would be said on here if Virgin implemented such a system....

 

[Simon11]

Why don't you reserve your seat on the train? It only takes one text to reserve your seat.

 

[All Line Rover]

Why don't you reserve your seat on the train? It only takes one text to reserve your seat.

He did. He says it didn't work on this occasion. And just because a short notice reservation system exists doesn't mean that available seats should be unidentifiable.

 

[calc7]

I honestly thought it was the 10 minute system until I asked the train manager and she explained how the new system worked. It must be driving the staff crazy as I can imagine plenty of shouting matches between staff and disgruntled passengers.

Why are they doing this?

This has come as a big surprise to me - I was on a Voyager for 6 hours this week (and it was perfectly fine, thank you ) and I honestly believed the same as you - that I'd taken one of the "10 minute reservation" seats (I'd split Advances in several places with different reserved seats and preferred to "camp for the long haul"). I am shocked and concerned about this train-wide policy!

 

[wintonian]

XC making meal of reservations - now there's a surprise :roll:

I sometimes wonder how the people in their 'idea and usability' section get themselves dressed in the morning.

 

[Goatboy]

Why don't you reserve your seat on the train? It only takes one text to reserve your seat.

As I said in my post - I have tried on 5 seperate occasions to make a '10 minute reservation' on the XC services I use. Every single time it comes back with not available. This isn't linked to actual availability either as one of the trains I got on after failing to secure a TMR was almost empty and absolutely full of Available seats. So the system simply isn't reliable.

But this new issue isn't related to the 10 minute reservation service - it doesn't actually seem to show traditional, 'paper' reservations on the screen until the train arrives at the station it's reserved from.

Every station without fail there was some sort of conflict between the people in the seat and the people who had reserved the seat.

 

[beeza1]

I travelled from SHF to BHM on an XC service on 27th Dec, the train was packed, when we got to Derby the reservation notice changed, a block of maybe 6 to 8 seats were suddenly "reserved", it was chaos then for the next 15 mins or so, the lady who eventually sat by be said that was the fourth seat she had sat in since boarding at Wakefield (she told me they had booked "online" a couple of days before, but the "system" would not let them reserve seats). I remember a while ago witnessing a very heated argument between 2 passengers because of the crazy "10 min reservation" rule. The sooner this rule is abandoned the better.
On my return journey on the 1st Jan the train was almost empty, but the "on board reservation" system was not working, the conductor seemed more concerned with manually reserving the seats than checking tickets, which I found rather odd, I must add the train was a replacement as the original service from PLY was cancelled. In fact I didn't have my ticket checked on both the outward and the return, this is the first time I have travelled on XC and not had my ticket checked.

 

[Goatboy]

I remember a while ago witnessing a very heated argument between 2 passengers because of the crazy "10 min reservation" rule. The sooner this rule is abandoned the better.

It's worse now - it seems to be ALL reservations that appear at the station its reserved from, not just the 10 minute ones. Which is presumably what happened on your train.

 

[calc7]

I wonder if XC Management monitors this forum and was waiting to see how long it took for this thread to be created

 

[Goatboy]

I'm not even sure I understand why its changed? They always used to scroll where it was reserved from even if the train hadn't got there yet.

 

[calc7]

I'm not even sure I understand why its changed? They always used to scroll where it was reserved from even if the train hadn't got there yet.

Quite - I can see no advantage of "Available - but may be reserved later" over "Reserved from Leamington Spa", unless the geography of the majority of XC passengers is extremely poor.

Either way, the management supremos who gave this idea the thumbs up need to be dropped off by the last train of the night to Dovey Junction. :roll:

 

[YorkshireRider]

I doubt it will be long before it will be changed back, im sure staff and the union reps have let their feeling known on the matter.

 

[calc7]

One would have thought some "proof of concept" may have been carried out before undertaking an not insubstantial technical and logistical alteration to a core part of the customer experience - e.g. try the altered reservation screens on one or two trains with some people paid to monitor the results. Apparently years of established change management practice evades those in charge at Arriva.

 

[beeza1]

It's worse now - it seems to be ALL reservations that appear at the station its reserved from, not just the 10 minute ones. Which is presumably what happened on your train.

So am I correct in assuming I could occupy a seat marked "available" at, say MAN only to reach Stockport, around 10-15 mins into my journey and then be asked to move because the seat is reserved? If so the system is even dafter than I first thought.
I am sure it used to display "This seat is reserved from A to B", or "This seat is available untill A", or something similar.

 

[Goatboy]

So am I correct in assuming I could occupy a seat marked "available" at, say MAN only to reach Stockport, around 10-15 mins into my journey and then be asked to move because the seat is reserved? If so the system is even dafter than I first thought.

They say 'Available, but may be reserved later'. But otherwise, that seems to be exactly how it works.

I am sure it used to display "This seat is reserved from A to B", or "This seat is available untill A", or something similar.

It did! No idea why it doesnt anymore.

 

[Trains06]

is this a recent change? its lunacy... had exactly the same scenario depicted by beeza1 happen to someone on my train out of Manchester...

 

[SteveP29]

I was on the 20:03 out of Newcastle to Edinburgh on Thursday.

Booked seat in quiet coach.

Got on, no reservation on the electronic display. Took my seat, then noticed that every seat said available, in the whole carriage, I could understand if we were the last stop, but there was a stop at Alnmouth.

What I don't like about the electonic displays is that if you select a seat that says available and select a window seat, you cannot physically see when the display changes (if it works as it is supposed to) without getting out of your seat to look.

 

[route:oxford]

It shouldn't take too long for the "The Daily Mail" to find a suitable vulnerable person who was forced to change seats 4 times on her way to visit a family grave and "Abused by German owned Arriva"...

 

[Andrewlong]

I travelled on XC last wednesday for the first time in ages and saw these messages. I too thought the system lacked flexibility.

Having said that at least XC have moved on from paper tickets like you have on FGW. You should see the chaos when traincrew have to turn a staff round quickly and there isnt enough time to put out new reservation tickets - and you get a standoff between passenger in 'unreserved' seat and traveller who has a reservation for it.

 

[Goatboy]

Having said that at least XC have moved on from paper tickets like you have on FGW.

But when these are used properly, which is 95% of the time, they are excellent. You know quickly exactly where and when a seat is reserved and whether you can sit in it.

 

[Qwerty133]

I travelled on XC last wednesday for the first time in ages and saw these messages. I too thought the system lacked flexibility.

Having said that at least XC have moved on from paper tickets like you have on FGW. You should see the chaos when traincrew have to turn a staff round quickly and there isnt enough time to put out new reservation tickets - and you get a standoff between passenger in 'unreserved' seat and traveller who has a reservation for it.

Or when you get the nearly whole coach to yourself as no one else realises the reservations relate to the journey in 2 journeys time and not the current un reservable journey which happens all the time on xc turbostars between Leicester and Birmingham

 

[wintonian]

Having said that at least XC have moved on from paper tickets like you have on FGW.

Paper tickets aren't blank things that suddenly start displaying text after the train has started moving - of course you could be unlucky and the display stays blank.

 

[Andrewlong]

Paper tickets aren't blank things that suddenly start displaying text after the train has started moving - of course you could be unlucky and the display stays blank.

But as i said when there is no time to get these things put out as often happens on FGW - the result is the same. Worse on a friday night when trains are packed with weekend visitors

 

[NSE]

I've never had a paper system fail on me, but I have had the electronic one on a few occasions. I was on XC on NYD and saw this (SHF-LDS) but figured that it was simply broken, but its a ridiculous system.
I generally prefer not to travel with XC unless:

1) I'm getting on at a station I know its easy to get my seat, i.e. the start of the route, at station I know from experience is quiet, as is the train.
2) I'm first class, therefore easier to get my seat and sort any disputes.
3) It's only a small part or a connection and I have no luggage to not be able to store in the rack etc.
4) I have no choice

 

[All Line Rover]

But when these are used properly, which is 95% of the time, they are excellent. You know quickly exactly where and when a seat is reserved and whether you can sit in it.

I agree. On XC, VT and I assume EMT, there is no indication as to whether a seat is reserved, reserved later or available until you get close enough to read each display. They are small and difficult to read so on busy trains it takes quite a while for people to sit down (except those who grab the first 'empty' seat without looking at the display, only to have an argument with the reservation holder later).

I think the electronic reservation systems are an improvement on the manual ones in terms of operational practicality, but they would be a huge improvement both operationally and for passengers if there was an LED on top of each seat which turned red when reserved, orange when reserved later and green when available. Then passengers would only have to read the displays when all of the 'green' seats have been taken, in order to find out the station from which an 'orange' seat is reserved.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think the electronic reservation systems are an improvement on the manual ones in terms of operational practicality, but they would be a huge improvement both operationally and for passengers if there was an LED on top of each seat which turned red when reserved, orange when reserved later and green when available.

Eversholt's maligned Mk4 refurb includes LED indicators for seat reservations like you describe. Though I think the indicators are mounted over the seats on the wall rather than on the seats themselves. And I have to agree that I think an electronic system coupled with indicators will be just as good and indeed better than paper tags.

 

[wintonian]

How about combining advance reservations with a system for walk-up passengers like this?

Sometime in the not too distant future when all stations have automatic barriers ans a Mr Scargill has moved in with a Mr Crow to save on rent, a customer inserts the ticket they have just bought and out the other side pops a boarding pass with a seat reservations. The passenger then find the correct coach and seat and check that it is correct by looking at the on-board display that has already been updated with their purchase.​

No arguments about sitting in reserved seats and the elimination of the reuse of expired tickets.