XC refund disagreement

[Pumbaa]

I'm currently having trouble getting XC to cough up for a refund.

Was due to travel to Leeds on 31st July from Elsenham. Wires down meant no service whatsoever and no information. We missed the last rail replacement coach at 0800 and then no service until after 0945.

Thus we abandoned travel as while we'd be carried on next train with our Advances, the trip was pointless due to time constraints in Leeds.

I initially contacted XC as I booked the tickets through their mobile App, but after debating the validity of my refund, they told me to go Greater Anglia as they were responsible for causing my delay.

Greater Anglia agreed I was entitled to a refund, but said XC would have to issue it as I booked through them, as I initially thought.

XC are now refusing to issue a refund saying I am not entitled, as;

a) I booked more than one ticket to complete the journeys to and from Leeds
b) The ticket bookings did not include a journey from Elsenham, as we were going to buy Anytime singles on the day but obviously we didn't as we couldn't travel
c) I was entitled to travel later, not a refund, even though my travel plans were delayed by 1hr30 at my origin, thus rendering my travel entirely useless assuming the delay remained constant
d) My return travel was for the following day so I am not entitled to a refund for return travel.

Tickets purchased were 2 x Peterborough - Doncaster Advance singles, 2 x Doncaster - Wakefield Anytime Singles, 2 x Wakefield - Leeds Anytime Singles, 2 x Leeds - Peterborough Advance singles for the following day.

Any advice please?

I am sure that excuse a) doesn't hold out - you're entitled to use more than one ticket to complete a journey.

Likewise b) - no sane person would purchase a ticket once aware of the disruption until they were sure they would be able to travel.

Likewise c) - I always thought TOCs had to give you the option.

And I'm sure d) holds no water - how can I complete my return journey having been prevented from completing my outward journey?

 

[island]

If you had bought the tickets from Elsenham to Peterborough ahead of time I would be much more confident in saying that your journey was valid and you would be entitled to a refund. However, you booked a journey from Peterborough to Leeds. Was service running between Peterborough and Leeds?

Also, did you surrender your tickets to a booking office immediately when you decided you were not going to proceed with your travel? This is required under the NRCoC.

 

[Pumbaa]

We didn't know where we'd be the day of travel. We were coming back from Chelmsford and made camp in Elsenham as we have friends who live locally. We chose Peterborough as the start point as it would have been easy to get to from either Ipswich, Norwich, Elsenham or London (which were our 4 overnight choices). Obviously we never purchased the ticket from Elsenham when we realised it wouldn't be possible to travel. We had no way of getting to Peterborough, and as we had to be in Leeds at a certain time, once we'd missed that time there was no point in travelling.

No we didn't surrender the tickets - they still haven't been collected. There were staff on the platform at Elsenham who said we'd need to get in contact with XC as that's who we'd booked the tickets through.

 

[222007]

Are advance tickets non refundable though?

 

[thedbdiboy]

Are advance tickets non refundable though?

Under normal condition yes, however the NRCoC makes clear your entitlement to a refund if your train is delayed and you choose not to travel.

 

[yorkie]

Are advance tickets non refundable though?

The customer cannot request a refund for Advance tickets due to the customer choosing not to travel for no particular reason.

But when trains are delayed/cancelled, customers do have the right to cancel their journey and should then be refunded, or alternatively make the journey (if possible) and claim delay compensation (as applicable).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Any advice please?....

Unfortunately I don't believe you have a leg to stand on. Advance tickets are only refundable under condition 26 (a), which requires you to hand them over for refund at the time of disruption and because you didn't have the ticket to cover the part of the journey you say was disrupted.

To me, a) doesn't hold much water (there is no definition for 'journey'), but the rest I can't really fault. If you had bought a ticket from Elsenham, you would be entitled to a refund for the outward journey (provided the tickets were handed in immediately for refund) and, if you were lucky, the return advance ticket, but the later would only be as 'a gesture of goodwill', there would be no entitlement to it.

You could apply for a regular refund on the Doncaster-Wakefield and Wakefield-Leeds Anytime tickets, but how much you would pay in admin fees would depend entirely on who processes the refund and in how many transactions the tickets were bought.

 

[Pumbaa]

Thanks.

Greater Anglia said much the same regarding return travel refund, ie at discretion.

However they were explicit both over the phone and in writing that:

"...regarding your travel arrangements for 31st July. Due to the disruption on this date you are entitled to a refund on your tickets...

...Unfortunately you were given the wrong information by Cross Country Trains so I have forwarded this letter, your letter and your travel details to their customer services department...

...they have advised me to forward all correspondence to them so that they can refund your tickets."

Copied verbatim.

As far as I can see, my decision to not buy a ticket from Elsenham when we arrived and saw the mess was incorrect?

I also had no idea about the requirement to hand over tickets if you chose not to travel. I was not informed of this by Greater Anglia staff, they simply said "get in touch with HQ as they'll have the incident on record". I even offered to print off the tickets so that they could endorse them, but they said 'no need - its easier for HQ to process if you don't print off tickets, they can do it all from your reference numbers'.

 

[yorkie]

Had you bought tickets from Elsenham before the problems became apparent, you would have 100% been in the right.

Not buying tickets from Elsenham means that your claim is relying on goodwill.

What isn't clear is when you intend to buy the additional ticket and then disruption occurs and you choose not to travel. It becomes even more unclear if you were advised not to buy that additional ticket and that you would be eligible for a refund for a journey that did not, then, originate at Elsenham. That offer should be honoured, despite the fact multiple TOCs are involved, as the customer has a contract with the rail industry collectively through RSP.

For example a few weeks ago someone was at Glasgow Central station and realised that incoming trains were delayed and therefore they may miss the Wigan to Manchester train, but they did not have a ticket for that portion of their journey yet. So they went to buy a ticket from Wigan to Manchester, to ensure that they were covered. Had the ticket office staff explained at that point that there were delays and refused to sell the ticket, they may not have been covered. Fortunately the delay was not yet apparent and the ticket was sold, thus cementing the contract to convey the customer for their entire journey using a combination of tickets.

 

[34D]

the trip was pointless due to time constraints in Leeds.

Devils advocate really, but I'm curious to understand how, when you weren't due to leave Leeds until the following day, that you felt there was no point in being (perhaps) being 2 hours late.

 

[Pumbaa]

Excellent. Seems utterly perverse in my opinion, but as those are the T+Cs....

I will let you know how I get on with XC.

 

[Pumbaa]

Devils advocate really, but I'm curious to understand how, when you weren't due to leave Leeds until the following day, that you felt there was no point in being (perhaps) being 2 hours late.

Hour long meeting at a city centre location 10 mins after planned arrival into Leeds followed by catching up with colleagues and friends.

Called the people I was meeting, couldn't reschedule so reasoned my time was better spent catching up on other work!

I normally wouldn't bother as work would pay for the tickets, but as I missed the meeting it comes out of my own pocket.

After two weeks of travelling by train instead of car, I've gone back to car. Sad indictment - its more expensive than by train but wholly more reliable, especially as all my plans have a habit f changing last minute.

 

[IanD]

all my plans have a habit f changing last minute.

Perhaps a series of Advances is not the best otion for you then.

 

[yorkie]

Perhaps a series of Advances is not the best otion for you then.

Agreed. When booking an Advance ticket there are always risks that have to be considered.

But given the high price of Anytimes, the choice is not Advance or Anytime. The choice is often Advance or drive, for cost reasons. So I understand Pumbaa's decision.

But, on that note, the thread could risk going off-topic so I'll lock it now until...

I will let you know how I get on with XC.

Good luck! Send me a PM when you have got the result so we can update the thread