'XC Only' Cancelled Train

[lyesbkz]

If I were to buy a Morpeth-Newcastle Anytime Single, route XC Only, and the XC service I was planning to use is cancelled, am I entitled to hop on the next service operated by any TOC to get to Newcastle? (Given that there are only about 3 XC services per day which call at Morpeth going on to Newcastle)

 

[yorkie]

I think it depends on how long it is until the next one! It is unclear if there is a help point if the ticket office is closed, if there is then someone there should be able to advise.

If it is the last XC train of the delay you are covered by condition 43:

43. Help from Train Companies if you are stranded
If disruption caused by circumstances within the control of a Train Company or a Rail
Service Company leaves you stranded before you have reached your destination and the
Train Company whose trains you are entitled to use is unable to get you to that destination
by other means, any Train Company which is in a position to help will, if it reasonably can,
either arrange to get you to that destination, or provide overnight accommodation for you.

However it is unclear what "stranded" means. e.g. if the 0813 is cancelled, you could argue that you are "stranded" until 1121; over 3 hours really is too long to be forced to wait, surely?! Then there's the 1450, a slightly longer wait. Then 1718, a wait of 'only' 2.5 hours. After that there are no XC trains. So if you miss the 1718 I'd say condition 43 definitely applies but for the others it may be debatable (unless anyone has any definition of stranded that applies in this context?)

 

[lyesbkz]

So if the condition does not apply, and I am forced to buy an Any Permitted ticket to use a Northern service, what are my chances of receiving a refund on the XC Only ticket?

And a slightly related question: there's nothing stopping me from buying Route XC Only tickets on board the XC service, if the ticket office is shut?

 

[LexyBoy]

So if the condition does not apply, and I am forced to buy an Any Permitted ticket to use a Northern service, what are my chances of receiving a refund on the XC Only ticket?

And a slightly related question: there's nothing stopping me from buying Route XC Only tickets on board the XC service, if the ticket office is shut?

I can't find any info specifically relating to XC, but in general, if your journey is disrupted by more than a certain amount you will be entitled to a refund. Often it's 1 or 2 hours, so I would think that a refund is due. Equally, you may be accomodated on a Northern train in the event of an XC cancellation.

As always, you may buy any ticket on-board if you didn't have opportunity to buy before.

 

[Anvil1984]

I dont think it applies in this case to be honest. Northern only have to carry the passenger if XC cant carry the passenger on one of their services or if XC cant for any reason raise a taxi / another method of transport.

The key phrase is condition 43 is

Train Company whose trains you are entitled to use is unable to get you to that destination by other means

Before Northern are obliged to carry the passengers, XC must have exhausted all other avenues and the most common one would be a special stop order on the service an hour later for example, or they could ask Northern to carry their customers in a behind the scenes deal, or they could arrange road transport

 

[yorkie]

So if the condition does not apply, and I am forced to buy an Any Permitted ticket to use a Northern service, what are my chances of receiving a refund on the XC Only ticket?

You are entitled to a refund in such circumstances as stated in NRCoC.

And a slightly related question: there's nothing stopping me from buying Route XC Only tickets on board the XC service, if the ticket office is shut?

Anytime tickets are always available on-board XC services.

However if you wish to use a Railcard then the discount is only available if the ticket office is closed.

Before Northern are obliged to carry the passengers, XC must have exhausted all other avenues and the most common one would be a special stop order on the service an hour later for example, or they could ask Northern to carry their customers in a behind the scenes deal, or they could arrange road transport

Thanks for explaining one of the reasons why the rail industry is in such a financial mess. It is absolutely insane that XC should be organising taxis, or even getting special stop orders on later trains, when there is a perfectly viable train provided by another company.

 

[Anvil1984]

Sorry to be bearer of bad news but just giving another side of the interpretation as it is written. Its kind of the risk TOC only tickets are purchased I'm afraid. Reality is often different though and tickets are often accepted on other TOCS.

However also in reality a Stop Order would be a reasonable action if the 1718 Morpeth - Newcastle was canceled as the next Northern service is not until 1826 but not on the other two southbounds.

 

[yorkie]

However also in reality a Stop Order would be a reasonable action if the 1718 Morpeth - Newcastle was canceled as the next Northern service is not until 1826 but not on the other two southbounds.

The stop order would be most welcome if there is a XC service passing through non-stop before any other operators train calls. What I think would be silly is if the passenger is forbidden from boarding a service train and has to wait for an XC train to make a special stop. That seems a poor use of track capacity in addition to being poor customer service.

 

[Anvil1984]

Possibly but due to the break up and the way the railways run, what would the incentive be to Northern to carry the passengers without recompense when XC have created a flow to directly compete with them

 

[LexyBoy]

Would XC really be organising taxis in preference to getting Northern to take them? Surely it would be cheaper to pay Northern to take them on their trains?

Or am I expecting too much common sense?

 

[Greenback]

Possibly but due to the break up and the way the railways run, what would the incentive be to Northern to carry the passengers without recompense when XC have created a flow to directly compete with them

Maybe because other TOC's will convey Northern passnegers when their train is cancelled?

 

[Anvil1984]

Maybe because other TOC's will convey Northern passnegers when their train is cancelled?

Difference is there are not really that many Northern Only flows where Northern are trying to poach from others. I am not saying it is right not to potentially take them just playing advocate from companies POV
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Would XC really be organising taxis in preference to getting Northern to take them? Surely it would be cheaper to pay Northern to take them on their trains?

Or am I expecting too much common sense?

No, reality is there would be a back office deal or the next XC service would make an additional stop taxis would be a last thing at night thing. I was just stating that if XC cancel a service then another TOC does not have to take passengers holding XC Only Tickets

 

[MKB]

I'm afraid I don't stand for any of this nonsense. If the train I'm booked on is cancelled, I always get on the next available service. I'm already delayed as it is. I'm not prepared to accept any further delay.

It is the TOC who cancelled the train who are in breach of contract and they need to recompense the TOC I actually travel with, not me. If there is no mechanism to do that, that's hardly my fault.

So far, ticket checkers have always taken a common-sense approach, but were I to encounter a jobsworth in this situation, I'd take the line that they need to take me to court if they want any extra fare from me. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't get that far as this is one of those matters where TOCs do not want to set any form of precedent.

 

[WelshBluebird]

And this is one of the numerous problems caused by our silly franchise system.
Surely it would be easy (and common sense) to just put a clause in the rules of carriage that would say any delayed passenger could use the next available service, no matter who the ToC is.

 

[cuccir]

We know that TPE aren't happy about.XC's fares in the North East, I wonder if management would be happy to see XC only tickets on their services in these circumstances...

 

[reb0118]

I encounter these XC only tickets on a regular basis on the Aberdeen route. These tickets have absolutely no validity whatsoever on other operators services UNLESS permission has been given by the appropriate channels ie control or the duty manager. If a passenger boards another company's train of their own volition then they must be prepared to purchase a new ticket. You can't pop into tesco and attempt to say with co-op vouchers because the co-op is shut due to staff shortages can you?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Please note I would never leave someone standed and would use appropriate discretion with young people & other vurnerable groups. Thats what TIR forms are for. There tickets are a right pain in the but. They sometimes only save the pax a few pounds if that but cause a lot of grief if they get on the wrong train. i've no objection to company specific fares - just make them train specific

 

[Deerfold]

I encounter these XC only tickets on a regular basis on the Aberdeen route. These tickets have absolutely no validity whatsoever on other operators services UNLESS permission has been given by the appropriate channels ie control or the duty manager. If a passenger boards another company's train of their own volition then they must be prepared to purchase a new ticket. You can't pop into tesco and attempt to say with co-op vouchers because the co-op is shut due to staff shortages can you?

You *can* pop into Tesco's and pay with Sainsbury's vouchers though.

This may just be a short-term promotion though.

 

[tony_mac]

There tickets are a right pain in the but. They sometimes only save the pax a few pounds if that but cause a lot of grief if they get on the wrong train. i've no objection to company specific fares - just make them train specific

Or allow them to be excessed.

In the case of a cancelled train, it seems that the passenger should have to return his original ticket for a refund and buy a new one for a different service.

Which is a lot of hassle, both from the passenger and the TOC, when an excess would result in exactly the same fare being paid.