xc fares

[timstours]

i have been looking up fares for some possible trips in the spring from swindon
but the earliest you can now leave swindon is around 08-45 onwards so a day out now becomes a half day out
the fares in advance were always quite good but a single to nottingham or stoke as examples before 08-45 are now in the region of about £31 or upwards ,is this right and what has changed

 

[Ivo]

To be honest that's not a lot to go on. The obvious answer is that it's CrossCoutnry and their fares are invariably over-priced, but being an Advance we would also need to know when exactly (i.e. date) you are thinking of. I see you say "Spring", but some people will tell you that Spring starts on March 1st and with XC even six weeks is often insufficient.

 

[crosscity]

I think Cross Country do not do many advance fares (if any) before the end of the morning peak, which in Birmingham is 9:30, so you are lucky!

You suffer what I suffer in reverse, which is exorbitant fares in both directions between Birmingham and Cheltenham. The Anytime Return fare is £33.50, Off-Peak Day Return is £22.00 and Off-Peak Return is £22.30. There is no Anytime Day Return fare. It seems to me that CC just don't want day trippers clogging up their trains between New St and Cheltenham - even off-peak. Once south of Cheltenham there are reasonably priced Off-Peak Day Returns. I know - I'm going to see a friend in Exeter on Thursday. It will cost me £33.50 to get to Cheltenham and back, and £30.30 in split Off-Peak Day Returns from Cheltenham to Exeter.

CC know they've got you by the short and curlies because there really is no competition between Birmingham and Cheltenham. The Worcester route has significantly cheaper fares, but the service is slow and infrequent and so useless if you want to go further afield for the day.

 

[yorkie]

Once south of Cheltenham there are reasonably priced Off-Peak Day Returns.

Yes, because they are priced by First Great Western.

and £30.30 in split Off-Peak Day Returns from Cheltenham to Exeter

Cheltenham to Exeter is a shocking price because Cross Country set that flow, however as you say splitting at Bristol reduces the price to not much more than half! The fares Cheltenham-Bristol and Bristol-Exeter are set by FGW, so are more reasonable.

CrossCountry clearly want us to avoid their trains, so I try my best to do just that and use other operators where feasible.

 

[Trainbuff]

Yes, because they are priced by First Great Western.

Cheltenham to Exeter is a shocking price because Cross Country set that flow, however as you say splitting at Bristol reduces the price to not much more than half! The fares Cheltenham-Bristol and Bristol-Exeter are set by FGW, so are more reasonable.

CrossCountry clearly want us to avoid their trains, so I try my best to do just that and use other operators where feasible.

To correct the above. Cheltenham to Exeter fares are set by FGW still. It is the insanity of the fares over different distances that cause this confusion. Saver returns valid after 08.33.

Other tickets passing through Birmingham are set by XC. On 2nd January this year the 8X restriction was removed and replaced by a 2V. In other words, when Saver returns were valid on any train after 05.00 before they are not valid till after 09.30 now.

This also includes tickets from Swindon bought at ticket offices. Please do check.

Below is an example:
Before changes Saver return Plymouth-Birmingham was £101.50
This ticket has gone up in price to £107.50 but is now not valid meaning an Anytime is now required. Cost £213!

Penzance to Edinburgh is £423. Only £27 less than a 7 day All Line Rover!

However, if you are going to Scotland from Totnes northwards buy a Saver return to Glasgow Any Permitted. It is valid and is much less than £360 for the Anytime Return to Edinburgh.

Definitely worth splitting tickets with distance.

 

[yorkie]

To correct the above. Cheltenham to Exeter fares are set by FGW still.

Well, I am using NFM10 and it says the fare for Cheltenham to Exeter is set by CrossCountry. If you are looking at NFM11 it is quite possible this has changed to FGW though.

 

[mikeg]

This flow is still set by XC according to NFM11.

I must say that XC's idea of yield management is pretty poor. By not offering (many) advances during the morning peak they're doing themselves out of business and making trains more overcrowded, not less, as there is now huge demand on the 'shoulder peak'.

 

[ainsworth74]

I must say that XC's idea of yield management is pretty poor. By not offering (many) advances during the morning peak they're doing themselves out of business and making trains more overcrowded, not less, as there is now huge demand on the 'shoulder peak'.

But if their peak time trains are full with people paying full fares why should they offer cheaper ones (and why would it be desirable to make full trains even fuller)?

 

[Eagle]

It will cost me £33.50 to get to Cheltenham and back, and £30.30 in split Off-Peak Day Returns from Cheltenham to Exeter.

(Off-topic) Have you tried splitting BHM–CNM at Worcester SH? Only problem is that Worcester to Cheltenham isn't particularly frequent...

 

[johnb]

But if they're peak time trains are full with people paying full fares why should they offer cheaper ones (and why would it be desirable to make full trains even fuller)?

This is the main area where having private sector TOCs falls down (in principle - obviously there are other aspects of privatisation that don't work brilliantly in practice): even though it's in everyone else's interests to fill the trains, it's in a TOC's interests, for a long-distance peak journey, to have a train half-full of people paying GBP200, rather than completely full of people paying GBP50.

I don't know what XC's load factors in the morning peak are like, but certainly VWC's peak Manchester trains, although far from empty, are rarely as full as shoulder-peak services. Which makes more money, but is the opposite of what the railways are for, and does not give the taxpayer (still the largest financial supporter of the railways) value for money.

 

[island]

I have some sympathy with XC for this. They run train services which take up to 13 hours 22 minutes, and I expect it is very difficult to contrast the needs/wants of people who want to travel from Aberdeen to Arbroath with those wanting to go Par to St Austell (and every other pair of stations) on the same train. Their services are ultra long-distance but because of the stopping pattern (no two stops on the ABD-PNZ service are more than 38 minutes apart) are wont to be used by people making short commuter-type journeys. If they fill the trains up with people going from York to Bristol Temple M, they'll then get pasted for not having enough capacity between Birmingham N St and Cheltenham Spa, or Bristol Parkway and Bristol Temple M, and so on.

 

[34D]

I have some sympathy with XC for this. They run train services which take up to 13 hours 22 minutes, and I expect it is very difficult to contrast the needs/wants of people who want to travel from Aberdeen to Arbroath with those wanting to go Par to St Austell (and every other pair of stations) on the same train. Their services are ultra long-distance but because of the stopping pattern (no two stops on the ABD-PNZ service are more than 38 minutes apart) are wont to be used by people making short commuter-type journeys. If they fill the trains up with people going from York to Bristol Temple M, they'll then get pasted for not having enough capacity between Birmingham N St and Cheltenham Spa, or Bristol Parkway and Bristol Temple M, and so on.

The obvious comment is that 15 years ago the trains used to be 7 coaches long, and 25 years ago longer than that....

But yes you make a very fair point here.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The obvious comment is that 15 years ago the trains used to be 7 coaches long, and 25 years ago longer than that....

But yes you make a very fair point here.

What was the service like 15 years ago though? Cheltenham gets 3tph to Birmingham these days and I would guess it was 2tph before operation princess so there might be the the same number (or more) seats per hour moving between the two places. The biggest change really is the number of passengers using the railway today, as passenger numbers have almost doubled since privatisation.

 

[johnb]

What was the service like 15 years ago though? Cheltenham gets 3tph to Birmingham these days and I would guess it was 2tph before operation princess so there might be the the same number (or more) seats per hour moving between the two places. The biggest change really is the number of passengers using the railway today, as passenger numbers have almost doubled since privatisation.

To a fairly close approximation, Princess provided the same capacity as Old XC at double the frequency (by using trains with half the seats). Both due to economic growth, and due to the fact that running a doubled-frequency clockface service with new trains is far more appealing than an infrequent random service with knackered rustbuckets, ridership rose immensely, hence the overcrowding.

(Virgin, obviously, knew this would happen and tried to spec additional coaches for the Voyagers and to add a fleet of HSTs to the service. The SRA refused).

 

[tbtc]

CrossCountry clearly want us to avoid their trains, so I try my best to do just that and use other operators where feasible.

I don't think it's anything personal, it's just that they have their hands full with "standard" tickets so don't have the space to be able to attract people on "advanced" ones.

What's the alternative? Reduce fares (on services which are already congested)?

 

[island]

Put on more coaches?

 

[tbtc]

Put on more coaches?

The additional coaches planned for Voyager extension cost over three million pounds each, and will take a couple of years to build, it's not a simple/fast process

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Three million pounds for a coach? hock:

 

[Pumbaa]

Each additional Electrostar car for Southern are cashing in at £1.5m each.

The eVoyager costs are inflated somewhat is it is one extra car per set, PLUS additional modifications to make the whole thing work off the knitting.

 

[crosscity]

(Off-topic) Have you tried splitting BHM–CNM at Worcester SH? Only problem is that Worcester to Cheltenham isn't particularly frequent...

I did consider going via Worcester, but it curtails my day. I would gain £14.20 and could leave Kings Norton at 7:57 and get to Exeter at 11:45. The latest I could leave Exeter to get back for a reasonable time is 17:23 giving me 5h38 there. If I used the direct off-peak fare I would save £11.50 arriving at Exeter at 12:42 and leaving at 19:23 giving me an extra hour in Exeter. The £2.70 extra is worth it to avoid the aggravation of making two additional changes and a slower journey and having longer in Exeter to boot.

Paying the full whack allows me to arrive at Exeter at 10:45 and leave at 19:23 giving me a full day of 8h38m. It also means I can catch an HST all the way from Birmingham to Exeter. As I don't make the journey all that often, and don't see my friend as much as I would like I have decided to do this.