WTTs for London Midland 1948-1993

[shawmat]

Timetable World has just published nearly 600 WTT sections for the London Midland region. https://timetableworld.com/wtt-lmr/ . Each section is a PDF download priced at a very modest £2-£4 each.

It's been quite a challenge to index the timetables in a coherent way. For 18 years up to 1966, the LMR still reflected its pre-Nationalisation structure in how WTTs were categorised. North from London, there was a "Western" area and a "Midland" area, and Lancashire/Yorkshire were the "Central" area. Overlaps with other BR regions were removed around 1965 and Areas were eliminated from 1967. The split between Passenger and Freight was abandoned during the 1970s in favour of "Mandatory" and "Conditional", but was re-established from 1980.

Anyway, you can search for timetables by location as well, which is probably easier to understand.

Please support this initiative by buying some of the timetables and giving some feedback. Other regions will follow in due course, depending on the interest in this first phase. Some sections were scanned from bound volumes where it has not been possible to remove page curvature.

 

[6Gman]

And Special Traffic Notices were still iussued as W1 (LNW south of Crewe), W2 (LNW north of Crewe), M (Midland) until ... well, sectorisation? Privatisation?

In the 1980s staff were still on W1 or W2 or M sections in Train Planning.

 

[leighsw2]

Thanks for the heads up about this. I will definitely buy some. I'm surprised there aren't more downloadable WTTs offered for sale. What's the copyright situation with these publications?

 

[Chrius56000]

. . .According to the Signalling Record Society who made an enquiry specifically regarding this, neither Network Rail, the T.O.C.'s nor Railtrack are worried about old obsolete B.R. and the "Big Four" publications, and they may be freely used for private study, research and as reference material for re–publication without the necessity to ask for special permission from.anyone, so Timetable World and the S.R.S. are within their rights to make these publications available for the purposes noted above!

 

[leighsw2]

Thanks. Worth knowing - I've just bought 10! I really hope they publish for the other regions, particularly Eastern (where my modelling interests lie).

 

[thesignalman]

(SNIPPED)
Please support this initiative by buying some of the timetables and giving some feedback. Other regions will follow in due course, depending on the interest in this first phase. Some sections were scanned from bound volumes where it has not been possible to remove page curvature.

I did indeed buy a couple I was after straight away (perfect timing to discover this resource!). My feedback is that the quality is excellent and they are easy to refer to. Purchase and download was smooth and sleek.

Only thing I would say is that the site initially implies you can only purchase through GooglePay, but as you progress it becomes apparent that PayPal and Cards can also be used.

Many thanks for the work you have put into all this - it must have taken ages! I hope it was worth it as I might be after some for other regions . . .

Best regards,

John

 

[rototunablack5]

I have bought 4 and they are excellent renditions. I now need to study them in detail

 

[eldomtom2]

Thanks for the heads up about this. I will definitely buy some. I'm surprised there aren't more downloadable WTTs offered for sale. What's the copyright situation with these publications?

. . .According to the Signalling Record Society who made an enquiry specifically regarding this, neither Network Rail, the T.O.C.'s nor Railtrack are worried about old obsolete B.R. and the "Big Four" publications, and they may be freely used for private study, research and as reference material for re–publication without the necessity to ask for special permission from.anyone, so Timetable World and the S.R.S. are within their rights to make these publications available for the purposes noted above!

Also, as they are mere lists of information, they may not be protected by copyright in the first place.

 

[thesignalman]

Also, as they are mere lists of information, they may not be protected by copyright in the first place.

"May not"? Isn't that a rather valueless reply?

I don't see them as "mere lists of information" at all, they are data compiled by the railway companies which was not intended for public consumption. Stated on the cover are the words "PRIVATE and not for publication". Above anything else, it gains respect and understanding to ask. I have always had co-operation, the only requirement ever requested was to not to publish current information.

John

 

[eldomtom2]

I don't see them as "mere lists of information" at all, they are data compiled by the railway companies which was not intended for public consumption. Stated on the cover are the words "PRIVATE and not for publication".

Which is my point - factual data is not copyrightable. The publication of private materials produced by an organisation is governed by different laws.

 

[thesignalman]

Which is my point - factual data is not copyrightable. The publication of private materials produced by an organisation is governed by different laws.

I think you are misunderstanding the law. You could possibly be legal to produce the data in a different form, but not in THAT form.

But it doesn't get away from the statement that it is Private and not for publication.

John

 

[eldomtom2]

I think you are misunderstanding the law. You could possibly be legal to produce the data in a different form, but not in THAT form.

No, because in this case the form is pretty much the only one the data could have been presented in, and the working timetables are extremely barebones in presentation with no extraneous details or aesthetic choices that could acquire copyright protection. Form is only copyrightable if it meets a minimum bar of creativity.

 

[thesignalman]

No, because in this case the form is pretty much the only one the data could have been presented in, and the working timetables are extremely barebones in presentation with no extraneous details or aesthetic choices that could acquire copyright protection. Form is only copyrightable if it meets a minimum bar of creativity.

Well of course I respect that everybody is entitled to their opinion but I would strongly recommend anybody choosing to follow this avenue takes legal advice before doing so. At the end of the day, it is surely easier just to ask than risk facing the wrath of a large business's legal department.

John