WSMR to finish

[MCR247]

And please tell me what the government could do? Keep running a loss making service? Don't think so. It isn't actually a line you know

 

[jopsuk]

The government don't listen to petitions on the official Number 10 petitions website; what makes you think they'll listen to one on a third party site, on a matter that isn't actually anything to do with them?

 

[tbtc]

And please tell me what the government could do? Keep running a loss making service? Don't think so. It isn't actually a line you know

Precisely!

If the Government are cutting the money they spend on core public services, you'd have to be very naive to think that they have the money to bail out WMSR.

Regardless, its the German Government they should be petitioning!

 

[thefab444]

If all the people who have supposedly signed that petition actually travelled regularly on WSMR, they wouldn't have gone under!

WMSR.

Major case of OCD here, but the proper the abbreviation is WSMR not WMSR. Wrexham, Shropshire & Marylebone Railway is the official company name.

 

[tbtc]

Major case of OCD here, but the proper the abbreviation is WSMR not WMSR. Wrexham, Shropshire & Marylebone Railway is the official company name

Fair point; that's the kind of thing I pick people up on so only fair I have it pointed out to me when I make a mistake like that!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If all the people who have supposedly signed that petition actually travelled regularly on WSMR, they wouldn't have gone under

Agreed. Same with the petitions to save bus services where hundreds of people sign something to protect a route that sees a couple of passengers per journey.

 

[swt_passenger]

According to the BBC earlier in the week, Bob Crow has called for the government to 'renationalise the franchise'. :roll:

 

[Geezertronic]

Sign a petition for gov't action on the closure of Wrexham & Shropshire line: http://*******/guOlB8 #savewrexshroprail

I think the wording of this post is typical of a lack of understanding. The line between Wrexham & Shropshire itself is not closing, it is the Train Operating Company Wrexham, Shropshire & Marylebone Railway that unfortunately is shutting down

 

[ukrob]

Sign a petition for gov't action on the closure of Wrexham & Shropshire line: http://*******/guOlB8 #savewrexshroprail

What has the Government got to do with it? They are a private company and can do what they want. Would you ask the Government to get involved if your corner shop closed?

 

[Mojo]

Donald Wilson and a colleague were handing out WSMR "souvenirs" on the platform at Marylebone this evening for the 18.30 and myself and another forum member managed to get some.

 

[tbtc]

According to the BBC earlier in the week, Bob Crow has called for the government to 'renationalise the franchise'. :roll:

http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=141976&int1stParentNodeID=89732

RMT demands public takeover of Wrexham and Shropshire railways

Publication Date: January 26 2011

Following the announcement this morning that the “open access” Wrexham and Shopshire service, via Birmingham and in to London, will stop operating on Friday (28th January) RMT General Secretary Bob Crow said:

"This is a bitter blow to the UK rail industry and it is a scandal that a giant company like Deutsche Bahn can play fast and loose with our rail services in this way and then and cut run when they decide the profit margins aren't fat enough for their liking.

"The UK Government should now step in and nationalise the route to protect both the jobs and the popular Wrexham & Shropshire services and there should be a full inquiry into how this operation, set up with Welsh government and taxpayer support, has been ground into the dust by Deutsche Bahn. Public ownership would protect that public investment rather than allowing the private rail asset strippers to walk away from the wreckage.

"Our immediate priority now is to protect our members caught in the middle of this scandalous private sector failure and we are meeting with the company with the aim of doing just that."

In a further bitter twist the closure of the Wrexham Shropshire service comes on the day that Passenger Focus revealed it has been voted the best operator by passengers with a 96% satisfaction rating.

Bob Crow added:

"With the rug being pulled from Wrexham & Shropshire, this shows conclusively that performance counts for nothing on our railways. All that matters is fat company profits, regardless of quality of services and rip-off fare increases. These figures reinforce the case against privatisation and for public ownership."

Good old Bob...

Still, it does raise two points:

1. Is the 96% down on the previously quoted figure?
2. More importantly, the reason that WSMR ran to Wrexham was partly because of the large amount of Welsh subsidy to invest there. Was any of this conditional on the service still running? Since its not gone "bust" (merely been scrapped) will any be repaid? Was it good use of public money to pay this to a private company like this?

 

[TomJ93]

What were these Souvenirs?

I went to get the 18:37 arrival from Wolves to Marylebone, train broke down en-route was pretty upset about that, though I hope to be able to do a trip tomorrow.

 

[RPM]

This time tomorrow it will all be over, petition or no petition. (Notwithstanding any bollocks spouted by Bob Crow, Christian Wolmar or anyone else).
This is a tragedy and I fell so sorry for my colleagues at WSMR. They believed in it. That was what made it so special, the staff were 100% motivated and cared about the success of the business. The fact that they were beaten by circumstances is no reflection on the vision and commitment that they showed. Good luck guys!

 

[jon0844]

Good old Bob...

If you mean, 'what a t**t!'

The release suggests that investors will have lost part of, or all of, £13m as there's no chance of a return - so will Bob suggest the Government uses the tax payer to pay them off? No, didn't think so.

In other words, the profit margins are somewhat skinny to non-existent. But, of course Bob knows that - he's just hoping to appear on TV and in the press to further his argument that we should renationalise the railways.

I think it's time he changed the record.

It is sad though for the staff, although hopefully they'll find jobs elsewhere - but it's good that the company didn't wait to go bust and then leave loads of debts and staff without any redundancy pay.

 

[Pumbaa]

I have my opinion,also I have seen all documentation from the ORR at meetings with W/S where I was representing the voluntary sector in Wrexham along with other supporters from the Private & Statutory sectors to get the railway into the town, so do not need a lecture on attention to detail from anyone who was not party to the meetings.

You think VT played by the book.You mention ATW, not me, well heres one example of a combined exercise by VT & ATW, to spoil W/S.

Two paths were given up by ATW into Wrexham to VT so it could extend its Chester/london service into the town, with the sole reason to damage W/S.

Of course, so you'll be ameniable to agree to my point that VT had nothing to do with it.

And you are also happy to peruse ORR site and ask various other staff for NR and industry hacks, sadly the VT Wrexham path was on paper a long time before a sound WSMR path was. So I don't need to be told a falsified version of the truth thanks - I wasn't at the local meetings but I have cold fact in front of me.

 

[CarterUSM]

Best of British to all with the job hunt.

 

[andyfrommk]

I went to get the 18:37 arrival from Wolves to Marylebone....

How did you manage that? I thought it was set down only at Wolverhamton

 

[merlodlliw]

Of course, so you'll be ameniable to agree to my point that VT had nothing to do with it.

And you are also happy to peruse ORR site and ask various other staff for NR and industry hacks, sadly the VT Wrexham path was on paper a long time before a sound WSMR path was. So I don't need to be told a falsified version of the truth thanks - I wasn't at the local meetings but I have cold fact in front of me.

There was nothing on any paper for a VT path into Wrexham before W/S came into the town, it was only possible due to another toc giving up its paths.
VT may have had an aspiration, but that's all, VT would never have come into the town except for W/S. I do not give false information either.

As regards Welsh Assembly money mentioned on another thread.
£1M was spent on Wrexham Station infrastructural modernisation, W/S did not receive any money itself.
This money was from Europe via WEFO, given direct to Network Rail who in turn paid contractors to modernise
rotting bays and renew electrics & services. W/S itself paid for all other station building improvements.
The station as a result is a credit to the town, I hope it is kept that way.
As Wrexham was the old Objective three, any monies could not be given to an objective three area Company for the employment of staff direct.
W/S will not have to pay back any public money, they received none, but left a wonderful legacy.

 

[thefab444]

Of course, so you'll be ameniable to agree to my point that VT had nothing to do with it.

I'm afraid you're fighting an unwinnable battle here, much like his deep rooted hate for Sky Digital, you'll never be able to change Merlodlliw's opinion on VT.

In fact, if Merlodlliw actually spent half of his time travelling on WSMR instead of moaning about WAG/ATW/Virgin/DfT on here, or about Sky and the excellent independent FTA channels available on Digital Satellite (No, I can't think of any either, but Merlodlliw rates Horse & Country TV), they would be rolling in cash!

 

[TomJ93]

Because it's pick up only heading towards Wrexham and Set down only heading towards Marylebone as you are not allowed to do Wolverhampton to London on anyone but Virgin!

 

[Crossover]

Because it's pick up only heading towards Wrexham and Set down only heading towards Marylebone as you are not allowed to do Wolverhampton to London on anyone but Virgin!

Having tried to make sense of what you said, correct me if I am wrong, but you were going as far as Wolverhampton from a station earlier on the route but it broke down, but you weren't going all the way to London?

 

[TomJ93]

Just realised my mistake, I went to get the 18:57 arrival at Wolves from Marylebone towards Wrexham.

Apologies.

 

[TDK]

This time tomorrow it will all be over, petition or no petition. (Notwithstanding any bollocks spouted by Bob Crow, Christian Wolmar or anyone else).
This is a tragedy and I fell so sorry for my colleagues at WSMR. They believed in it. That was what made it so special, the staff were 100% motivated and cared about the success of the business. The fact that they were beaten by circumstances is no reflection on the vision and commitment that they showed. Good luck guys!

Thanks RPM, Bob Crowe will always try to get coverage in any situation in this instance he has a valid point - any publicity to Bob os good publicity - you ask any person on the street if they know of any union cheif that fights for their workers and the majority will say Bob Crowe

 

[Snapper]

As previously discussed, the "satisfaction" is a useless comparison against other TOCs - you might as well compare apples with oranges.

It's an interesting point. Passenger satisfaction ratings do come at a cost. What the sad failure of WSMR has shown is that it's not much good having fantastic ratings if you're losing money trying to achieve them. Ratings don't pay the bills, bums on seats do...

On the other hand, I hope the excellent reputation frontline WSMR staff have built up will make it easier for them to find jobs elsewhere.

 

[caliwag]

Haven't read the whole thread, but for what it's worth there is an on-line petition up and running...

http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/wrexhamandshropshire

 

[swt_passenger]

Haven't read the whole thread, but for what it's worth there is an on-line petition up and running...

If you had read the whole thread, you'd already know about the petition, and you'd also realise that yesterday's discussions were mainly about how that petition was a complete waste of space...

 

[merlodlliw]

There is a lot of TV interest at Wrexham General for the 13.28 Up train, it is being driven by a regular contributor to this forum, who would like to meet as many of you as possible,thread
205 may give you a clue.
If any of you would like a chat with me, ill be on platform three with a jack Russell, it will be a big send off.


Bob

 

[tbtc]

It's an interesting point. Passenger satisfaction ratings do come at a cost. What the sad failure of WSMR has shown is that it's not much good having fantastic ratings if you're losing money trying to achieve them. Ratings don't pay the bills, bums on seats do...

On the other hand, I hope the excellent reputation frontline WSMR staff have built up will make it easier for them to find jobs elsewhere.

True.

WSMR must have had the highest ratio of "staff" to "train departures" in the country, if they did employ fifty five people. Now, whilst I'm not doubting the professionalism and dedication of WSMR staff (in the way that I wouldn't doubt the professionalism and dedication of staff at *any* TOC - all have hard working employees), if you are trying to pay fifty five wages from half a dozen journeys a day, that is always going to be hard to cover. Quality comes at a cost, sadly.

 

[Pumbaa]

There was nothing on any paper for a VT path into Wrexham before W/S came into the town, it was only possible due to another toc giving up its paths.
VT may have had an aspiration, but that's all, VT would never have come into the town except for W/S. I do not give false information either.

Seeing as you have seen all the paperwork, you'll know that there was. But I'm not going to say anything more, I'd rather go and smash my brains into a brick wall; I might get somewhere there.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm afraid you're fighting an unwinnable battle here, much like his deep rooted hate for Sky Digital, you'll never be able to change Merlodlliw's opinion on VT.

In fact, if Merlodlliw actually spent half of his time travelling on WSMR instead of moaning about WAG/ATW/Virgin/DfT on here, or about Sky and the excellent independent FTA channels available on Digital Satellite (No, I can't think of any either, but Merlodlliw rates Horse & Country TV), they would be rolling in cash!

So true - ah well, the flip side of the W+S operation folding is less ranting from Bob?! (Before anybody goes off on one, thats not insensitive, its a JOKE).

 

[Tom B]

It's on Your and Yours now. As for the press statement by Mr Crow, he's just a prat.

 

[Snapper]

The latest RMT press release is a stunner - for all the wrong reasons:

"ALL STAFF employed by Wrexham and Shropshire railways will be on board the final 18.30 service from London Marylebone to Wrexham as corporate greed kills off Britain’s most popular railway.

The closure of the Wrexham Shropshire service was announced on Wednesday – the same day that Passenger Focus revealed it has been voted the best operator by passengers with a 96% satisfaction rating.

W&S is an 'open access' train operator set up about 5 years ago following a successful campaign led by RMT Wrexham branch with support from the Welsh Assembly government and DoT following a sustained campaign by communities and businesses in Mid and North Wales for a direct train to London other than Virgin's West Coast service.

RMT is demanding an inquiry into how German rail giant Deutcshe Bahn and their partners have been allowed to get away with pulling the plug on the Wrexham and Shopshire service leaving £1 million of public investment on infrastructure at the Wrexham end of the route to potentially rot into the ground. RMT this morning repeated the demand that the service be taken into public ownership.

The union is in discussions aimed at protecting the futures of the 55 staff employed by the company.

RMT General Secretary Bob Crow said:

"The closure of the Wrexham and Shropshire service is an act of corporate vandalism and is a bitter blow to the UK rail industry. It is a scandal that a giant company like Deutsche Bahn can play fast and loose with our rail services in this way and then and cut run when they decide the profit margins aren't fat enough for their liking. "

Nurse - the screens...:roll: