Wrong train

[Wizzy bone]

Hi all ,
I am a student that travels from Hatfield to Welwyn garden city each day to college …I usually buy a ticket with return which I did same yesterday .but unfortunately when I was returning I got into the wrong train bcz it came at the same platform and same time I was expecting my train ..I ended up at Finsbury .I walked around and didn’t find any staff so I asked strangers and they directed me to a platform where I could take a train back to Hatfield..in that train an inspector came to check my ticket .He asked me why my ticket says Welwyn to Hatfield.I explained as much as I could but in vain ..He then took my details and gave me a witness statement, what will happen next ?

 

[30907]

Hi all ,
I am a student that travels from Hatfield to Welwyn garden city each day to college …I usually buy a ticket with return which I did same yesterday .but unfortunately when I was returning I got into the wrong train bcz it came at the same platform and same time I was expecting my train ..

Can you just clarify? You boarded a train at Welwyn GC which then ran non-stop to Finsbury Park? About what time was this?

..He then took my details and gave me a witness statement, what will happen next ?

You will eventually receive a letter claiming that you travelled without a valid ticket, and asking for your side of the story. We can advise you then how to word your explanation, but first we need you to explain what happened at WGC.

 

[John R]

It would be helpful to state the precise times of the trains, and also which platforms.

 

[Wizzy bone]

It was at 1pm and I was travelling from Welwyn to Hatfield..that is one reason why the train inspector doesn’t even believe me because the train at least should’ve stopped at potters bar but didn’t

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2023 ==

Platform 2 I guess where I usually take the train to Hatfield

 

[skyhigh]

What date did this occur?

 

[greatkingrat]

Did this happen on Thursday?

If so, I presume this is the train concerned, which did run fast from Welwyn GC to Finsbury Park.

Realtime Trains | 2R31 1228 Letchworth to London Kings Cross | 16/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 2R31 1228 departure from Letchworth to London Kings Cross on 16/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Wizzy bone]

What date did this occur?

16th November

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2023 ==

Did this happen on Thursday?

If so, I presume this is the train concerned, which did run fast from Welwyn GC to Finsbury Park.

Realtime Trains | 2R31 1228 Letchworth to London Kings Cross | 16/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 2R31 1228 departure from Letchworth to London Kings Cross on 16/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Yes

 

[John R]

When you get the letter you need to explain which train you caught (the 1251) and unfortunately did not realise that it wasn’t calling at Hatfield and PB as it usually does, so ended up at Finsbury Park. Hopefully that should be a sufficient explanation. When you get the letter, please post it here and we can give you more advice at the time.

In the meantime, do take a screenshot of the train schedule as linked above, so that you can include it in your response (it is only available for a few days on RealTime Trains, although obviously the rail companies keep the logs for a much longer period.)

 

[Wizzy bone]

Thank you very much dear am glad u got the trains schedule bcz nobody believes me when I say the train never stopped until Finsbury

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2023 ==

I would post any letter I get here for advice on what to do

 

[Starmill]

If there's evidence that the train you travelled on was scheduled to stop at the destination for which you did hold a valid ticket, as there is, I would say this supports strongly your confusion about whether the train was going to where you were trying to get to, which is likely to be an appropriate defence. As you then tried to return to the correct station I don't think that can be used to undermine a possible defence. However it may be pointed out that you didn't speak to a member of staff at Finsbury Park, and that could be used in an attempt to harm your defence. I don't think it would be likely to be persuasive though.

 

[John R]

Particularly if the train you were stopped on was at a time consistent with someone returning to Hatfield fairly soon after arriving off the train listed. Also, do keep any evidence you have as to the time you bought or activated the ticket, if that supports you travelling at around 1300.

 

[spag23]

However it may be pointed out that you didn't speak to a member of staff at Finsbury Park,

But the OP said they actively tried to, but were unable to find one.
In any case we have seen many recent cases where a traveller approaches a staff member for advice (sometimes in preference to just leaving the station), only for this "Customer Assistant" to penalise them regardless.

 

[Wizzy bone]

Unfortunately that was my first time at Finsbury and there were too many platforms a

If there's evidence that the train you travelled on was scheduled to stop at the destination for which you did hold a valid ticket, as there is, I would say this supports strongly your confusion about whether the train was going to where you were trying to get to, which is likely to be an appropriate defence. As you then tried to return to the correct station I don't think that can be used to undermine a possible defence. However it may be pointed out that you didn't speak to a member of staff at Finsbury Park, and that could be used in an attempt to harm your defence. I don't think it would be likely to be persuasive though.

unfortunately on my side it was my first time at Finsbury and the platforms were too many and no staff around to talk to so I seemed lost until I confronted a stranger who directed me to platform 8 where I took a train back to Hatfield

 

[Starmill]

Unfortunately that was my first time at Finsbury and there were too many platforms a

unfortunately on my side it was my first time at Finsbury and the platforms were too many and no staff around to talk to so I seemed lost until I confronted a stranger who directed me to platform 8 where I took a train back to Hatfield

Yes, of course I can totally appreciate it's not really possible to speak to a member of staff if you can't even find a member of staff to speak to.

 

[Wizzy bone]

Particularly if the train you were stopped on was at a time consistent with someone returning to Hatfield fairly soon after arriving off the train listed. Also, do keep any evidence you have as to the time you bought or activated the ticket, if that supports you travelling at around 1300.

My ticket was anytime day travel so I had right to travel with it ..and the train came to Welwyn garden city at 13:00 and the train inspector issued the witness statement at 13:54 at (potters bar )

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The 1251 from Welwyn Garden City (to London Kings Cross) does normally call, next stop, at Hatfield (Herts) doesn't it, not Finsbury Park, so presumably must have skip-stopped a number of intermediate stations on Thursday?

 

[John R]

Ok, no worries re the ticket. You should have enough evidence re the timings of the trains.

The 1251 from Welwyn Garden City (to London Kings Cross) does normally call, next stop, at Hatfield (Herts) doesn't it, not Finsbury Park, so presumably must have skip-stopped a number of intermediate stations on Thursday?

Yes, we’ve already established that.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Yes, we’ve already established that.

Had been confused by the OP's reference to "yesterday".

 

[Wizzy bone]

Thank you all guys I have taken pictures of the train schedule I also have my tickets as evidence ..which also means I took the right train but it skip stopped my destination.which is a good defence

 

[Krokodil]

It's worth grabbing screenshots of the full length of the RTT page to refer back to later, should you need to do so. The pages will vanish after a week, you see.

 

[John R]

One final question - why do you think you missed any announcements that it was skip-stopping? Did you have headphones on by any chance? If you did, this also helps explain why you boarded it ( but again, this shouldn’t be necessary, but adds to the picture of what happened if useful).

 

[furlong]

So consider to:
(1) Make a complaint about the failure to sufficiently warn passengers the train was skipping some stops and request compensation for the consequent delay to your journey - this should be a minimum of the Delay Repay level but hopefully they'll give you more?
(2) Make a formal complaint about the conduct of the inspector, in failing to check the facts and perhaps seek a personal apology from him for (accusing you of...whatever he said) instead of checking you weren't too much inconvenienced and trying to assist you?

 

[John R]

So consider to:
(1) Make a complaint about the failure to sufficiently warn passengers the train was skipping some stops and request compensation for the consequent delay to your journey - this should be a minimum of the Delay Repay level but hopefully they'll give you more?
(2) Make a formal complaint about the conduct of the inspector, in failing to check the facts and perhaps seek a personal apology from him for (accusing you of...whatever he said) instead of checking you weren't too much inconvenienced and trying to assist you?

There’s no evidence that (1) didn’t occur. The OP could have rushed on at the last minute, could have been wearing headphones, etc.

 

[Wizzy bone]

One final question - why do you think you missed any announcements that it was skip-stopping? Did you have headphones on by any chance? If you did, this also helps explain why you boarded it ( but again, this shouldn’t be necessary, but adds to the picture of what happened if useful).

No ,I had my phone in hand but I was very attentive because my destination from Welwyn to Hatfield was just 5minutes away .but it passed Hatfield and then I realised something was going wrong

 

[John R]

No ,I had my phone in hand but I was very attentive because my destination from Welwyn to Hatfield was just 5minutes away .but it passed Hatfield and then I realised something was going wrong

No worries - obviously it was the announcement at the station before you boarded or on board before you left WGC that would have been relevant. Once you set off your fate was sealed!

 

[furlong]

There’s no evidence that (1) didn’t occur.

It's for the train company to explain what actions it took, if any, and understand why they were inadequate. RTT suggests the train sat in the station for 5 minutes.

 

[John R]

It's for the train company to explain what actions it took, if any, and understand why they were inadequate. RTT suggests the train sat in the station for 5 minutes.

So you expect them to keep records of each announcement they make?

The OP has not made an allegation that there was a deficiency on the part of the TOC, and I would suggest this is an unnecessary digression from the purpose of the thread which is to advise them of how they can best ensure they do not get any form of punishment for catching the train they did.

 

[spag23]

The OP has been over-carried, delayed, inconvenienced, publicly accused of an offence, stressed, and obliged to spend time trying to remedy this consequence of the TOC's late running. And the best outcome the OP can expect is not to be punished???

 

[furlong]

The OP has not made an allegation that there was a deficiency on the part of the TOC,

They have implied that there were multiple deficiencies - or else they wouldn't be in this situation! Those deficiencies needs to be flushed out so the OP is able to respond to the allegation the company has made by establishing the extent to which culpability in fact lies with the train company and not the OP.

Think it through. At first sight, did the OP board a train at a station with facilities without a correct ticket - a byelaw offence, yes? But would a prosecution succeed? I would hope such an attempt could be challenged successfully as an abuse of process given the pivotal role of the train company in circumstances leading up to it. Now if you argue that there was plenty of information such that the passenger must have been aware and deliberately chosen (or recklessly acted) to ignore the fact that the train was missing the stop and board anyway, then an abuse of process challenge could well fail and prosecution succeed.

 

[Wizzy bone]

What made me feel really bad was when the inspector told me he doesn’t believe me without doing any checks ..And told me to pay a penalty of which I refused and that made him fill out my details and gave me a witness statement.To add to this there were no announcements at the station and the board wasn’t displaying the train schedules but it displayed ( engineering works may affect your travel )