Wrong Train Upsets Passengers

[Bayum]

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/39Wrong-kind-of-train39-upset.4542371.jp

Ouch...

Has this happened anywhere else?? Or is it not a regular occurence really??

 

[Pumbaa]

Ha. At least Northern bothered to provide a train for the service. How was this possible? The longest train Northern operate is 3 cars isn't it? (minus the 333s obviously).

 

[Bayum]

Ha. At least Northern bothered to provide a train for the service. How was this possible? The longest train Northern operate is 3 cars isn't it? (minus the 333s obviously).

I think they operate some 4 cars as well, pacer and pacer together...
Not sure though

 

[bluenoxid]

Ha. At least Northern bothered to provide a train for the service. How was this possible? The longest train Northern operate is 3 cars isn't it? (minus the 333s obviously).

Amazingly us Northerners have fathomed these coupler things and can actually couple the ****ers together

 

[Darandio]

I cannot see the problem, the guard is protecting the rear doors anyway so presumeably the other two carriages would be on the platform. Maybe not, probably why they havent given me and interview yet!

 

[Craig]

Could the guard just not have opened one set of doors with the local controls?

 

[Bayum]

Probably, but there will no doubt be health and safety issues involved in it or something...

 

[Darandio]

Probably, but there will no doubt be health and safety issues involved in it or something...

Thats what I thought, I imagine there was such an easy solution but they would probably have been afraid to do it in fear of what might happen.

What about when a NXEC service is north of the border? Stations are marked to show which ones dont have long enough platforms but as far afaik, all doors are available to open on arrival.

 

[driver9000]

Multiple working is common at NorthernRail maximum formations are:

totally formed of 15x vehicles is 12 cars (153s are counted as 2 vehicles though)
totally formed of 14x vehicles is 8 cars (also the maximum if a 14x appears in a 15x formation)

If the train is too long for the platform and the guard releases all the doors you run the risk of people falling from quite a height onto the ground when alighting from the doors not at the platform, at some locations where long trains regularly call there is sometimes a local instruction telling the guard to only release the local door (ie the door they operate the controls from) and allow boarding/alighting from that door only, otherwise they are required to empty and lock out of use the vehicles which would be left hanging off the end of the platform. I have experienced this on trains Ive driven on the rare occasion we need to strengthen the normal service which doesnt fit some platforms and it causes delays only opening one door waiting for passengers to walk through the train to the open door and for the ones on the platform to realise only one door is opened and to stop constantly jabbing the buttons. On the whole I dont think this kind of error happens very much.

 

[Nick W]

This happens a lot at Braintree Freeport when SDO opens, leading to all the commuters driving to witham and paying a few £ to park....

I never understood why it was allowed where it always was (eg Loughborough), but not where trains in the past have previously managed to fit. But I'm guessing if it was blanket banned, HSE would be footing a lot of station platform lengthening.

 

[LilLoaf]

Maybe the driver just forgot to stop and the station and seemed like a better thing to say.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Two things spring to mind:

Thameslink (no guard) regularly stopped 8 car trains in the 7 car 'up' platform at Barbican.

A Northern semi-fast train's stopping pattern was altered to no longer stop at Walkden when the stock used for the service changed because the platform was now shorter than the train.

Kind of implies Northern have a policy of not stopping trains that are too long for the platform.

Just a thought.

EDIT: Had a quick thought. Arrangements in use under BR may mean certain trains can 'hang out' of some stations but that now we have SDO (selective door opening), trains that previously didn't do it, aren't allowed to unless they have SDO. ????

 

[jv3531]

FGW:

Avoncliffe, Freshford, Dilton Marsh are all short platforms to name but a few - guard uses PA to "Will passengers for x station please alight from the front door of the front coach only at this station....". This includes 143 combinations etc. Some guards actually think about it and advertise this requirement from Bristol and Bath or westbury if the other direction!

Now HSTs have been SDO'd, its suprising where they will stop too - as long as SDO is operative, stop will be omitted if it fails though!

Re:
Arrangements in use under BR may mean certain trains can 'hang out' of some stations but that now we have SDO (selective door opening), trains that previously didn't do it, aren't allowed to unless they have SDO. ????

Re above: doesn't always apply - some will have to be locked OOU or only the front set will open depending on the stock. In the main this rule generally applied to LHCS and HST stock and through these "grandfather" rights these trains may still have the rule applied to them. Cam and Dursley is one for example - when it first opened the second summer timetable had a VT HST that stopped in the morning and following this, HSTs and loco hauld stock can now stop at this platform, Cotswold Rail making great use of this on a number of occasions!

 

[AlexS]

Arriva Trains Wales and London Midland both call at Bilbrook station with 4 23 metre long coaches when it can only hold 3.

London Midland use SDO on the 170s to only open up the forward unit of the 2, but ATW seems to vary somewhat between opening up the whole train and just asking passengers to not try and open the doors in the rear coach, and having the guard run up and down the platform opening a series of doors with the air cock, doing the same to close them bar the local door when the train is ready to depart.

 

[Broken Viking]

Hail All!

What about when a NXEC service is north of the border? Stations are marked to show which ones dont have long enough platforms but as far afaik, all doors are available to open on arrival.

I had a similar experience earlier this year, when catching an fGW Sunday HST from Canolig Caerdydd to Reading. I can't remember which stations we called at between Casnewydd and Swindon (We didn't go down the Severn Tunnel due to weekly maintenance works) but at least three of them had 2-3 car long platforms.

Now...If an 8+2 car HST can call at a station with a two car platform in the West of England, there's sure as hell no reason why the same design of train can't call at similar stations in Scotland...And the issue linked from the original post certainly makes no sense to me whatsoever! :roll:

Also: In the past, I have caught 2-3 car long trains on the North Wales line and have alighted at Llanfair PG, which only has a 1-1.5 car platform on the westbound side. As I habitually travel in the rear of the train anyway (Especially if I have boarded at Conwy) I often wind up alighting at a door with no platform next to it. Yet this kind of thing doesn't cause me problems whatsoever as I'm perfectly happy to jump or climb down to cess level and walk the cess to the platform as long as it isn't a TRE'd line. 8)

To be honest: In the case of short platform stations and "overhangs", my view is that though passengers with wheelchairs and pushchairs (Obviously) should have access to the platform so that they may board or alight, I can't see why fit and able passengers can't be allowed to do an "overhang jump" out of one of the back doors, provided they head straight down the cess to the platform to exit the station, and understand that such an egress is at their own risk!

Though I understand and acknowlege the presence of health and safety regulations nowadays, I do think that they've gone too far in requiring all passengers to alight at the platform and potentially cause a huge crush right through the train if there are a load of people trying to board or alight at that station. I'd say that if a passenger is willing and capable of alighting lineside in a safe manner as I have outlined above, then he or she should be allowed to do so.
After all...Imagine the scenario of 2-car long platforms and 12-car Desiros at Clapham Junction. Could ye imagine the headache caused when everyone is trying to alight through the four centre doors? hock::roll:

Farewell...
>> Death <<

 

[heart-of-wessex]

FGW:

Avoncliffe, Freshford...

Its Avoncliff, no 'e' at the end :P. Even NR managed to spell it wrong and put an e at the end once!

I know here at Trowbridge, when the FGW 158s were being formed to 3 cars, one driver once stopped at the 2 car stop, thus getting the 'draw forward' buzz from the guard!

 

[driver9000]

I hope Liloaf has evidence to back up their allegation of the driver failing to call - a serious accusation to make! It would be dangerous to allow passengers to jump out of the train where there is no platform its a long drop onto an uneven surface with loose ballast anyone doing such a thing is dangerous and tresspassing on the railway - but if you think thats acceptable why dont we do away with platforms altogether and let people get on and off where they please!! Some people come out with some stupid things! The rules are in place for everyones sake please forgive us for trying to keep you all safe!

 

[P156KWJ]

I hope Liloaf has evidence to back up their allegation of the driver failing to call - a serious accusation to make! It would be dangerous to allow passengers to jump out of the train where there is no platform its a long drop onto an uneven surface with loose ballast anyone doing such a thing is dangerous and tresspassing on the railway - but if you think thats acceptable why dont we do away with platforms altogether and let people get on and off where they please!! Some people come out with some stupid things! The rules are in place for everyones sake please forgive us for trying to keep you all safe!

When I was working, I had to make my way just beyond the platform to pick up a 'Not to be moved' board, and I was in smart dress as I was on-train staff, and walking in shoes not boots on ballast is suprisingly hard and sometimes painful!

 

[AlexS]

Hence I have a pair of reasonably smart boots that I use for when I'm doing general duties - I never wear shoes!

 

[bluenoxid]

I hope Liloaf has evidence to back up their allegation of the driver failing to call - a serious accusation to make! It would be dangerous to allow passengers to jump out of the train where there is no platform its a long drop onto an uneven surface with loose ballast anyone doing such a thing is dangerous and tresspassing on the railway - but if you think thats acceptable why dont we do away with platforms altogether and let people get on and off where they please!! Some people come out with some stupid things! The rules are in place for everyones sake please forgive us for trying to keep you all safe!

The same bloke who cannot accept that railway stations are private property. My case rests

 

[heart-of-wessex]

saying that actually, I remember when I went on the sleeper when 47 828 was on duties and was at the very rear doors in the passenger saloon, left penzance and stopped at Hayle, and all the doors unlocked. Some guys didn't see there wasn't a platform as it was hanging out, so they jumped onto the track side and walked up to the platform!!

 

[driver9000]

The same bloke who cannot accept that railway stations are private property. My case rests

Aimed at me??

 

[Jim]

FGW:

Avoncliffe, Freshford, Dilton Marsh are all short platforms to name but a few - guard uses PA to "Will passengers for x station please alight from the front door of the front coach only at this station....". This includes 143 combinations etc. Some guards actually think about it and advertise this requirement from Bristol and Bath or westbury if the other direction!

Now HSTs have been SDO'd, its suprising where they will stop too - as long as SDO is operative, stop will be omitted if it fails though!

Re:
Arrangements in use under BR may mean certain trains can 'hang out' of some stations but that now we have SDO (selective door opening), trains that previously didn't do it, aren't allowed to unless they have SDO. ????

Re above: doesn't always apply - some will have to be locked OOU or only the front set will open depending on the stock. In the main this rule generally applied to LHCS and HST stock and through these "grandfather" rights these trains may still have the rule applied to them. Cam and Dursley is one for example - when it first opened the second summer timetable had a VT HST that stopped in the morning and following this, HSTs and loco hauld stock can now stop at this platform, Cotswold Rail making great use of this on a number of occasions!

Few pointers:

First, it's Avoncliff with no 'e'

Second, Freshford is not a request stop,and hasn't been for about4years, and more to the point is only front door only if the train is formed with more than cars. Unofficially on the Bath direction, a Car pacer fits easily

Warminster is an interesting example, 17.22 Bristol-Portsmouth is booked coaches. There is an Exeter driver who travels on this service from Westbury-Warminster to supervises the Car combo stopping in what is a 4.Car platform. I don't have much knowledge on this operation at Warminster, so your best off asking someone who works for FGW in Traincrew!

Now SDO is fitted on FGW HST's, it has made the calling patterns interesting, however when the SDO goes broke, the train is fast Plymouth-Penzance for example!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When I was working, I had to make my way just beyond the platform to pick up a 'Not to be moved' board, and I was in smart dress as I was on-train staff, and walking in shoes not boots on ballast is surprisingly hard and sometimes painful!

Hence it is a PTS requirement? to wear SAFETY shoes?

 

[P156KWJ]

I do have 2 pairs of safety boots, just didn't have them that day because my duties that day shouldn't have needed them

 

[The 158 Man]

I see they've used a nice modern picture in the report....................