Wrong Ticket Sold on board Greater Anglia train?

[Class707SE]

My friend was travelling from Sudbury to Bath this morning and I advised him to buy a Super Off Peak return on the train as I thought this might be easiest and is commonly done. Unfortunately, the guard sold him an off-peak return. My friend insisted that he wanted the Super Off Peak as its cheaper and valid at the time he was travelling, but the guard would not budge. Instead he consulted Google Ai to say that super-off peak is only valid from 12:00, which is not true for this certain ticket.

Luckily, at Marks Tey, I told my friend to visit the Ticket Office, where amendments were made, and he finally got the ticket and refund he needed, albeit missing the train he was intending to take. Is this worth making a complaint about?

Thanks in advance.

 

[soccermad]

Were there ticket purchase options BEFORE they boarded the train ?

The answer to your query does depend on that !

 

[Haywain]

Yes, it's worth complaining. If the guard was prepared to sell a ticket he should have sold the right ticket.

 

[speedy1]

Instead he consulted Google Ai to say that super-off peak is only valid from 12:00

Unbelievable - using AI to either attempt to find the correct answer, or to act as an arbiter over a minor disagreement with a passenger !

 

[318266]

My friend was travelling from Sudbury to Bath this morning and I advised him to buy a Super Off Peak return on the train as I thought this might be easiest and is commonly done. Unfortunately, the guard sold him an off-peak return. My friend insisted that he wanted the Super Off Peak as its cheaper and valid at the time he was travelling, but the guard would not budge. Instead he consulted Google Ai to say that super-off peak is only valid from 12:00, which is not true for this certain ticket.

Luckily, at Marks Tey, I told my friend to visit the Ticket Office, where amendments were made, and he finally got the ticket and refund he needed, albeit missing the train he was intending to take. Is this worth making a complaint about?

Thanks in advance.

If the Government thinks it is fine for the Civil Service, then I'm sure we will see more of this in the future.

 

[jon81uk]

I advised him to buy a Super Off Peak return on the train as I thought this might be easiest and is commonly done

I think a large part of the issue is that buying from the person on the train is no longer commonly done and therefore rarely the easiest option.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Super Off Peak Day Returns for local journeys in that area, such as Sudbury Suffolk to/from Marks Tey (or to/from Colchester / Colchester Town) would only be valid (midweek) for journeys starting after 11:59, so wouldn't be valid on the 11:26 departure from Sudbury (Suffolk) or, indeed, earlier. Anyone able to confirm what, however, the peak travel restrictions would be for a Super Off Peak Return from Sudbury Suffolk to/from Bath Spa and so what the earliest departure someone could be on, from Sudbury?

 

[AlterEgo]

My friend was travelling from Sudbury to Bath this morning and I advised him to buy a Super Off Peak return on the train as I thought this might be easiest and is commonly done.

That isn't good advice. Sudbury has ticketing facilities and boarding a train there without a ticket is a criminal offence. If they'd been caught by revenue protection inspectors they'd ben reported for prosecution or penalty fared. At Sudbury you must buy your ticket before you board.

Hence, making a complaint may be inadvisable.

 

[Merseysider]

Whilst not an official source, BRFares is reliable and shows the following for the Super Off Peak Return:

Outward Travel;

Not valid on trains timed to depart:

• London Paddington after 04:29 and before 10:10 and after 15:04 and before 19:01.
• Reading after 04:29 and before 10:30 and after 15:29 and before 19:01.
• Slough after 02:29 and before 09:40 and after 14:50 and before 18:25.
• London Waterloo after 04:29 and before 08:15 and after 15:59 and before 19:01;
• Birmingham New Street after 04:29 and before 10:30.

Not valid on trains timed to arrive at:

• Exeter St Davids after 04:59 and before 11:30
• Salisbury before 09:30 and after 17:40 and before 19:01.

Thus it would appear such a ticket could be used at that time, but tickets must be bought before boarding where the opportunity exists.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

That isn't good advice. Sudbury has ticketing facilities and boarding a train there without a ticket is a criminal offence.

Good point. What are the ticketing facilities these days at Sudbury Suffolk? A TVM, certainly. Does it take cash, however? (Not sure!)

 

[Snow1964]

That isn't good advice. Sudbury has ticketing facilities and boarding a train there without a ticket is a criminal offence. If they'd been caught by revenue protection inspectors they'd ben reported for prosecution or penalty fared. At Sudbury you must buy your ticket before you board.

Hence, making a complaint may be inadvisable.

It would depend on ticket machine, some do not sell full range of tickets.

You really need to check if that ticket type to destination requested is available from machines at the station (assuming ticket office closed)

It becomes a bit of a grey area if the ticket is hidden, so have to search through few different screens, and/or scroll around to find it. There is a reasonableness test of being able to find it to buy it too.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

You really need to check if that ticket type to destination requested is available from machines at the station (assuming ticket office closed)

No ticket office nowadays at Sudbury Suffolk. It's a basic station.

 

[AlterEgo]

It would depend on ticket machine, some do not sell full range of tickets.

This provides no legal defence or entitlement under the NRCoT.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It would depend on ticket machine, some do not sell full range of tickets.

This provides no legal defence or entitlement under the NRCoT.

So, what should an intending traveller do in such circumstances?

 

[Class707SE]

I think a large part of the issue is that buying from the person on the train is no longer commonly done and therefore rarely the easiest option.

I've advised them not to bother buying on the train. But I can guarantee that it's still quite common. Plenty of people buy tickets to London or Colchester etc. on board.

 

[AlterEgo]

So, what should an intending traveller do in such circumstances?

It would be very rare for the intended ticket type not to be sold, but they must legally have *a* ticket under the law.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would be very rare for the intended ticket type not to be sold, but they must legally have *a* ticket under the law.

Theoretically, but in practice guards are more reasonable (RPIs may not be). Also with payment methods - I have boarded without a ticket due to wanting to use a rail travel voucher and Euston gateline quite happily let me through to buy one there (which I did and went back to give them the outward portion as they asked).

 

[maniacmartin]

I thought this changed recently with one of the NRCoT amendments? Didn't they remove the condition about buying a cheaper ticket as part payment, presumably because excessing them is quite cumbersome for the railway?

 

[Watershed]

I thought this changed recently with one of the NRCoT amendments? Didn't they remove the condition about buying a cheaper ticket as part payment, presumably because excessing them is quite cumbersome for the railway?

That was removed when the NRCoT were introduced, replacing the NRCoC.

 

[81A]

I thought the latest NRCoT referenced "the ticket you require" or something similar? If so, probably at least a grey area in the case of tickets unavailable from the machine...

 

[Snow1964]

This provides no legal defence or entitlement under the NRCoT.

I am not aware the NRCoT is worded in form, that must buy a wrong ticket, if your required ticket is not available from specific sales point

I think legally it's a bit of a grey area, and if ticket exists but isn't sold, does that meet the condition of must buy a ticket before travel.

Although I can't see how anyone could enforce buying a wrong ticket and exchanging it for correct ticket later in your journey, over buying the correct ticket at first available time. If didn't accept that argument effectively saying if desired ticket isn't sold, just buy cheapest even if short fare. I don't think that is intended plan.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Has it been confirmed what the TVM at Sudbury will or will not sell? Is cash payment possible, or is it card (or collection) only?

 

[redreni]

This provides no legal defence or entitlement under the NRCoT.

In saying that, are you taking account of the post-November 2025 wording which refers to facilities to purchase "the ticket you require" not being available at the station where you start your journey?

The one good thing about the November 2025 revision was that it put to bed (or so I thought) the old chestnut that if you can't get the ticket you need, you have to buy any old ticket that will get you to your destination or to a larger station where you can buy further tickets, even if it means overpaying.

 

[AlterEgo]

In saying that, are you taking account of the post-November 2025 wording which refers to facilities to purchase "the ticket you require" not being available at the station where you start your journey?

The one good thing about the November 2025 revision was that it put to bed (or so I thought) the old chestnut that if you can't get the ticket you need, you have to buy any old ticket that will get you to your destination or to a larger station where you can buy further tickets, even if it means overpaying.

It isn't a legal defence against a Bylaw allegation. Though the NRCoT are typically unclear I will give you, because it does not give this reason as an exception to civil penalties (new ticket or PF etc) under the same contract.

Either way, the discussion is academic because that ticket would have been available had the OP's friend used the ticket machine.

 

[gray1404]

If it was not possible to purchase the ticket before boarding the train then I would inform customer relations if you feel inclined. I say that because it sounds like a refund was issued at the ticket office when changing trains and the correct fare charged.

That said, a delay was encountered as a result of this so I would argue that the train company should issue the equivalent into low repay compensation as a minimum. So it would be worth contacting customer relations.

Is however it was possible to purchase the ticket before boarding but a decision was made not to, then I would let this one slide.

 

[Wawanesa]

Good point. What are the ticketing facilities these days at Sudbury Suffolk? A TVM, certainly. Does it take cash, however? (Not sure!)

I can confirm that the ticket machine at Sudbury(Suffolk) accepts cash, well it accepted my cash in April. However I only bought a local ticket so can't comment on the range offered.
In fact I was surprised at the number of people buying tickets on the train (without comment from the guard) as I thought Greater Anglia frowned upon that these days.

 

[Haywain]

I can confirm that the ticket machine at Sudbury(Suffolk) accepts cash, well it accepted my cash in April. However I only bought a local ticket so can't comment on the range offered.

The days when TVMs only sold tickets to a very limited range of destinations are long past.

 

[redreni]

The days when TVMs only sold tickets to a very limited range of destinations are long past.

Yes, yet at the same time, try buying an off-peak day single Reading to Eynsford from a GWR machine at Oxford. I have. It could not be done. Couldn't do it from Reading either when I tried the next day. In fact there's a large number of off-peak fares missing from GWR's TVMs. Then just the other day I got stuck behind a charming Belgian man at the Farringdon TVM who wanted a single to Cambridge North. "No fares found" was the TVM's final word on the matter.

I'm not saying the TVM wouldn't have sold the ticket the OP's friend needed, only that it's generally necessary to check in order to say confidently that a given ticket would have been available from a given TVM. The passenger should have tried in this instance, though.

 

[sheff1]

The days when TVMs only sold tickets to a very limited range of destinations are long past.

They might sell tickets to all/most destinations but they certainly don't sell all the walk up point to point tickets to all destinations. I don't know what the situation is at Sudbury, but at Sheffield the TVMs do not sell the straightforward ticket I, and many others, require for simple journeys to places like Barnsley or Doncaster.