Wrong railcard

[185143]

I'd like the expert's opinion on this, wether I've done the right thing or been overly cautious.

I purchased a ticket from (the ticket office, FWIW, though it'd be CCST regardless) at station A and boarded the train to station B. A, a short local journey.

Whilst onboard I realised that the ticket clerk had applied a 26-30 railcard instead of my 16-25 railcard. When I changed at station B, a major station, I headed to the ticket office who told me they could refund and replace it, but it was the same discount so I should be fine. With having spent the amount of time browsing this forum as I do, I asked for it to be replaced which was done without issue. Obviously I've kept the receipts from everything in case the money doesn't get back to my account.

But was I correct in insisting on the refund or would I have in fact been OK if revenue staff had checked?

 

[John R]

It makes a big difference if bought from a ticket office, as in that instance it is the seller’s mistake as they should have asked for sight of your railcard, and thus selected the wrong one. If you buy from a machine it is clearly your responsibility to check that you have selected the correct one.

I would have done the same thing, if only to minimise any chance of hassle throughout the journey.

 

[Watershed]

There was a period when 26-30 Railcards were first rolled out, and not all retailing interfaces had been updated to include it as a Railcard option, that it was officially permitted to use a 16-25 discounted ticket with a 26-30 Railcard. That period has long since passed so in theory, a member of staff would be entitled to treat you as travelling without a valid ticket if they were to apply the rules strictly.

Of course in most cases there's no difference between the discount offered by either Railcard so enforcing this would be petty in the extreme. But if you had obtained a discount the 26-30 Railcard wouldn't normally offer you (i.e. on a walk-up fare under £12 during the morning peak in the months of July or August, or on Caledonian Sleeper journey) then I think it would be understandable.

I think your actions were definitely the right way to proceed though. It eliminated any risk of being wrongly penalised. I hope you weren't charged an admin fee to fix the ticket office's mistake though?

 

[SuspectUsual]

I think the OP absolutely did the right thing.

My son had a similar experience about 8 years ago, when he was travelling home from sixth form college. He had whatever the West Yorkshire student card was called, and it entitled him to a 50% discount. He showed the card at the booking office, asked for his ticket, and was charged the amount he expected.

When leaving the station at the end of his journey he encountered a revenue block, who told him his ticket wasn’t valid and he was going to be prosecuted. The reason? The ticket he was given was a child fare, not a student discounted one. The fare was identical.

Eventually, after a lot of effort from his mum and me, Northern dropped their threat of prosecution but repeatedly refused to apologise because they saw it all as being my son’s fault despite the mistake having been made by the ticket office staff

 

[185143]

There was a period when 26-30 Railcards were first rolled out, and not all retailing interfaces had been updated to include it as a Railcard option, that it was officially permitted to use a 16-25 discounted ticket with a 26-30 Railcard. That period has long since passed so in theory, a member of staff would be entitled to treat you as travelling without a valid ticket if they were to apply the rules strictly.

Of course in most cases there's no difference between the discount offered by either Railcard so enforcing this would be petty in the extreme. But if you had obtained a discount the 26-30 Railcard wouldn't normally offer you (i.e. on a walk-up fare under £12 during the morning peak in the months of July or August, or on Caledonian Sleeper journey) then I think it would be understandable.

I think your actions were definitely the right way to proceed though. It eliminated any risk of being wrongly penalised. I hope you weren't charged an admin fee to fix the ticket office's mistake though?

I wasn't, no.

It makes a big difference if bought from a ticket office, as in that instance it is the seller’s mistake as they should have asked for sight of your railcard, and thus selected the wrong one. If you buy from a machine it is clearly your responsibility to check that you have selected the correct one.

I would have done the same thing, if only to minimise any chance of hassle throughout the journey.

I quite agree, though the ticket would have looked identical had I bought it from a TVM. FWIW, I showed my Railcard, the seller clearly just pressed the wrong button which I assume is next to it.

 

[Haywain]

But was I correct in insisting on the refund or would I have in fact been OK if revenue staff had checked?

You would probably have been alright. There's a forum bias towards thinking every error is penalised by the big nasty railway when, in reality, staff exercise discretion to a large number of people every single day. Some of those staff are active on the forums but most will not be, and the customers/passengers involved are not going to come here and tell us they didn't have a problem.

 

[Kite159]

As long as the discount is the same and pressing the wrong Railcard button hasn't bypassed any minimum fare or time restrictions then it will only be a militant guard/RPI who will take things further.

After all total loss to the rail industry will be a big fat zero if it's a weekend and someone has a 26-30 discount rather than a 16-25 discount.

 

[styles]

Cases of threats of prosecutions for selecting the wrong 16-25 vs 26-30 Railcard, for a journey unaffected by the minimum fare condition, were specifically criticised by the ORR in a recent report into TOC revenue protection policies. Thankfully in that example the passenger got their MP involved and the case was dropped, but it's ridiculous to end up in that position.

The majority of guards/RP would be fine with it, particularly given the ticket office should've asked to see the Railcard, but I'd have done the same as you if I have enough time at a connecting station.

I bought a ticket with a Disabled Railcard discount at a ticket office last week, and was surprised they didn't ask to see the Railcard (which I didn't have, as I'm the companion and didn't have it loaded on my phone yet). I don't particularly agree with requiring Railcards at ticket offices unless the ticket is same day, as it's more restrictive than buying tickets online where you merely need to agree to have the Railcard when it comes to travelling. But it is what it is.