Wrong date of birth

[SU21]

Hi,
I am writing on behalf of my friend. She and I went somewhere but i have to urgently go from there. I was guilty so I bought her railway ticket to go home. And I accidentally used the railcard (which I didnt have). She later got checked by railcard person and in shatteredness she told the wrong date of birth. She has no previous criminal records of any kind. What would they possibly write in the penality fare notice?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi,
I am writing on behalf of my friend. She and I went somewhere but i have to urgently go from there. I was guilty so I bought her railway ticket to go home. And I accidentally used the railcard (which I didnt have). She later got checked by railcard person and in shatteredness she told the wrong date of birth. She has no previous criminal records of any kind. What would they possibly write in the penality fare notice?

Welcome to the forum! What is your friend's real age? And how old did she say she was?

The thing is, if she said (for example) that she was 20 rather than 21, then nothing particularly turns on this - people get small details wrong the whole time, and the railway are used to it. But if she said that she was under 16 when she is actually older than that then this could be a problem as the fares for people under 16 are cheaper than those for people of 16 or older - and the railway does not approve of people paying less than they should for their train fare.

 

[SU21]

She is actually born in 73 and she said 78. Rest of the dates are fine. But railcard was 30, which is not even valid for her

 

[AlterEgo]

Was she issued anything at the time? If she wasn’t Penalty Fared at the time, one cannot be issued retrospectively. Instead they will report her for prosecution and the matter may be more expensive to resolve.

 

[SU21]

She has been issued witness statement form. And they said they are going to write her. What would be the possible outcome of this? What shall they write?

 

[AlterEgo]

She has been issued witness statement form. And they said they are going to write her. What would be the possible outcome of this? What shall they write?

Which company is she dealing with?

 

[SU21]

Southeastern

 

[Fawkes Cat]

She is actually born in 73 and she said 78. Rest of the dates are fine. But railcard was 30, which is not even valid for her

So while your friend is about 51, she said that she was about 46. So I don't think that she needs to worry about the date of birth being wrong as the error doesn't affect the validity of the ticket. The fact that no one had a valid railcard is more important.

 

[SU21]

What would be the possible outcome of this? What will they write in the penality fare letter?

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And what about I have paid for her journey from my card. Will all this matter involve me?

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@Wethebest838 if you could please guide me thanks.

 

[Fermiboson]

The matter will not involve you as you have not committed any criminal offence. Your friend, unfortunately, has committed an offence under Byelaw 18, or Regulation of Railways Act 1889 5.3(a). (Intent is disputable here.)

Has your friend been given any documentation? If not, then she has not received a penalty fare. Penalty fares are issued on the spot, consist of the ticket cost + 50 quid if paid promptly, and are generally for honest mistakes. They enable the matter to be closed quickly.

If your friend was issued with a Travel Irregularity Report/MG11 or had her details taken but given no documentation, then she has been reported for prosecution. This is not the end of the world - certainly nobody is going to prison over it. Your friend should expect a letter at the address she gave within 6 months asking for some settlement amount. This will likely be an admin cost of about 150 pounds, plus an anytime day single for the journey she has undertaken. If she is able to pay this amount promptly, then the matter will be settled without the court being involved and your friend will have no criminal record.

A complicating actor in this is that, if they look at your account, they may think every ticket you have bought is in fact for her and hence invalid, and they will ask for a much higher settlement amount. You do want to prepare an explanation with supporting evidence that every other ticket on your ticket booking account is for your own use and you do have a valid railcard; the railways are generally amenable to reducing the settlement amount after such a polite and well-supported explanation.

 

[SU21]

This is the first time I have purchased a ticket for her. She is ready to pay the fine but she doesn't want any kind of prosecution. This is her first time like this. What should she be expecting in her first letter keeping in view her year of birth is wrong. Will they involve me as well for explaining why I bought a ticket for her? Will they call us in their office personally for questions? I am really stressed

 

[Lewisham2221]

And I accidentally used the railcard (which I didnt have).

I am confused by this part.

Do you have a valid railcard?
If so, what railcard?

 

[SU21]

I didnt have the railcard. I used the railcard for my friend which i dint have

 

[Snow1964]

I didnt have the railcard. I used the railcard for my friend which i dint have

So you don't have railcard selected from previous journey, but did so for your 51 year old friend.

Which railcard did you select, and why ?

 

[Lewisham2221]

I didnt have the railcard. I used the railcard for my friend which i dint have

Unfortunately, by using the railcard discounted ticket without a valid railcard, your friend has commited an offence. As others have stated, it is possible (likely?) that your friend may be able to avoid this going to court. Southeastern will write to your friend, basically asking for an explanation/her version of events. After they receive her reply, they may write back, offering an out of court settlement. This is usually the full Anytime single fare for any journeys, plus an admin fee of around £150. I presume your purchased the ticket online? It should be fairly easy for your friend to prove that she is not the account holder (i.e you) and that therefore any other journeys which show in your account history are irrelevant.

However, it's difficult to see how you "accidentally" used a railcard discount for this ticket, if you don't hold a railcard yourself. Have you purchased tickets for yourself using a railcard discount, even though you don't hold a valid railcard? If so, you yourself could be open to investigation and potential prosecution.

 

[SU21]

I accidentally selected 26-30. She is not even 30. She is 41.

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Unfortunately, by using the railcard discounted ticket without a valid railcard, your friend has commited an offence. As others have stated, it is possible (likely?) that your friend may be able to avoid this going to court. Southeastern will write to your friend, basically asking for an explanation/her version of events. After they receive her reply, they may write back, offering an out of court settlement. This is usually the full Anytime single fare for any journeys, plus an admin fee of around £150. I presume your purchased the ticket online? It should be fairly easy for your friend to prove that she is not the account holder (i.e you) and that therefore any other journeys which show in your account history are irrelevant.

However, it's difficult to see how you "accidentally" used a railcard discount for this ticket, if you don't hold a railcard yourself. Have you purchased tickets for yourself using a railcard discount, even though you don't hold a valid railcard? If so, you yourself could be open to investigation and potential prosecution.

So will they be checking my accounts as well? And will be writing to me separately?

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So how should I respond to using the railcard I didnt have?

 

[Lewisham2221]

I accidentally selected 26-30. She is not even 30. She is 41.

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So will they be checking my accounts as well? And will be writing to me separately?

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So how should I respond to using the railcard I didnt have?

It is very possible that Southeastern will use the ticket details to identify the online account used to purchase the ticket (at this point, I'm going to assume Trainline unless corrected ). They may then ask Trainline (or whatever retailer it is) for access to your purchase history. If they see other journeys purchased with a railcard discount, or anything else that they think looks suspicious, they may well write to you as well. Are they likely to find any reason to contact you?

 

[SU21]

It is very possible that Southeastern will use the ticket details to identify the online account used to purchase the ticket (at this point, I'm going to assume Trainline unless corrected ). They may then ask Trainline (or whatever retailer it is) for access to your purchase history. If they see other journeys purchased with a railcard discount, or anything else that they think looks suspicious, they may well write to you as well. Are they likely to find any reason to contact you?

I dont think so. I previously purchased a railcard which was valid family railcard and that wasnt purchased from machine. Can you keep in mind the whole scenario and tell me what will be the outcome of all this?

 

[Fermiboson]

Right, this complicates matters. You have also previously committed a criminal offence. Nominally, they won't know it's two different people and they'll bundle it together in the out of court settlement. However, since they haven't caught you, they probably do not have enough evidence to convict you just on the basis of you not having the railcard you purchased tickets with (can they prove you travelled?) and cannot separately threaten prosecution on you. It seems both legally and morally dubious to threaten to prosecute one person if the settlement for a crime which another person committed (without their knowledge presumably) is not paid. I'm not sure what will happen. Perhaps @island may have some insight.

Needless to say both of you must ensure that you purchase the correct ticket from now on.

 

[SU21]

Right, this complicates matters. You have also previously committed a criminal offence. Nominally, they won't know it's two different people and they'll bundle it together in the out of court settlement. However, since they haven't caught you, they probably do not have enough evidence to convict you just on the basis of you not having the railcard you purchased tickets with (can they prove you travelled?) and cannot separately threaten prosecution on you. It seems both legally and morally dubious to threaten to prosecute one person if the settlement for a crime which another person committed (without their knowledge presumably) is not paid. I'm not sure what will happen. Perhaps @island may have some insight.

Needless to say both of you must ensure that you purchase the correct ticket from now on.

Yes we surely will do. We both have never purchased wrong tickets ever before. And no criminal offense. What will be the outcome for my friend in all this? And in how much time should she expect the letter? How early a letter can be received?

 

[Fermiboson]

And in how much time should she expect the letter? How early a letter can be received?

Letters can arrive as early as a few weeks but can take up to six months (as that is the time limit the company has for laying information before the magistrates). Your friend will want to monitor closely both her physical and electronic mail.

As to how much happens to your friend - I don't know. I suspect the option of least hassle will be just to pay everything they ask for for which there is no valid railcard, and work out whosever settlement it is within yourselves. Others more experienced will be able to better advise on the implications of the peculiar case where two people, both of which are guilty of some rail ticketing offence, using the same ticketing account, but one of which presumably does not have enough evidence to be prosecuted.

All this, of course, hinges on your friend existing. You'll have gathered that there being two people involved in the case is quite important to how it may turn out, so if this is not the case a lot of the advice we give may be incorrect. Not insinuating anything on your integrity, of course - we get all sorts on the forum and it's important to ensure that we have the true details so as to not accidentally give incorrect advice.

 

[SU21]

Letters can arrive as early as a few weeks but can take up to six months (as that is the time limit the company has for laying information before the magistrates). Your friend will want to monitor closely both her physical and electronic mail.

As to how much happens to your friend - I don't know. I suspect the option of least hassle will be just to pay everything they ask for for which there is no valid railcard, and work out whosever settlement it is within yourselves. Others more experienced will be able to better advise on the implications of the peculiar case where two people, both of which are guilty of some rail ticketing offence, using the same ticketing account, but one of which presumably does not have enough evidence to be prosecuted.

All this, of course, hinges on your friend existing. You'll have gathered that there being two people involved in the case is quite important to how it may turn out, so if this is not the case a lot of the advice we give may be incorrect. Not insinuating anything on your integrity, of course - we get all sorts on the forum and it's important to ensure that we have the true details so as to not accidentally give incorrect advice.

I am just curious now that do they check the payment details as well? Like who paid for whom? Like most of the people may pay for their friends, family. Is that really a matter of concern?

 

[Lewisham2221]

I am just curious now that do they check the payment details as well? Like who paid for whom? Like most of the people may pay for their friends, family. Is that really a matter of concern?

Sorry, I just want to clarify something. The ticket that you bought for your friend, did you buy this online/from an app such as Trainline or did you use a self-service machine at the station?

 

[Fermiboson]

I think they generally assume all tickets bought on the same account is for the same person.

 

[SU21]

Sorry, I just want to clarify something. The ticket that you bought for your friend, did you buy this online/from an app such as Trainline or did you use a self-service machine at the station?

I used my card to buy that. I took her somewhere with me then I had to go in emergency so I bought her the ticket to go home as I was guilty. The question is do they check the payment history as well? Like who paid and etc like we always pay for friends, family etc

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I think they generally assume all tickets bought on the same account is for the same person.

Which account are you talking about? Bank account or personal profile history?

 

[Lewisham2221]

I used my card to buy that. I took her somewhere with me then I had to go in emergency so I bought her the ticket to go home as I was guilty. The question is do they check the payment history as well? Like who paid and etc like we always pay for friends, family etc

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Which account are you talking about? Bank account or personal profile history?

Unfortunately you aren't giving clear answers to our questions, which is making it very difficult to give you accurate answers

 

[SU21]

Unfortunately you aren't giving clear answers to our questions, which is making it very difficult to give you accurate answers

Sorry what is your question

 

[Lewisham2221]

Sorry what is your question

Did you buy the ticket for your friend from a ticket machine? Or on an online app?

 

[SU21]

Tickets machine

 

[Lewisham2221]

Tickets machine

This makes things much simpler. Your previous purchase history is practically irrelevant in this case, it's most likely that they will look only at this one incident, as it is far more difficult for them to build a picture of your purchase/travel history.

Somebody else may be better able to provide advice on how your friend should respond to the letter from Southeastern, when it arrives.

I've never used a Southeastern ticket machine, but I am slightly dubious about the ability to "accidentally" select a railcard discount. Your concern about how they may (or may not) be able to track/search your previous ticket purchases also makes me slightly suspicious. Other members will find it far easier to provide you with accurate advice if you are totally honest with the information you share. Apologies if you are being honest, I don't mean to offend.