Wrong 350 usage?

[317666]

From what I can tell the 350/1s were designed for Midlands semi-fast longer distance services, such as Birmingham - Liverpool, so they have 2+2 seats with armrests/tables. And the 350/2s were designed for commuter services out of London Euston, so they have 3+2 seats with no armrests or tables. However, it has come to my attention that 350/2s sometimes are used on longer distance services, and 350/1s on commuter trains. Does it honestly take much effort to ensure that the different sub-classes are used on the correct routes?

 

[37401]

you cant say for a fact that /1`s are for long distance and /2`s commuter, they are both for London Midland long distance services, IIRC a few /1`s are working with southern or south-eastern one of those anyways.

 

[Phoenix]

Generally traction can be designed specifically for certain types of services such as long distant or suburban but the gap between the 350/1 introduction and the 350/2 introduction there could be a number of reasons for the seat arrangments rather than duty specific reasons.
Also I believe the 350/2 allocation to the Euston-crewe services is more than satisfactory but one thing to remember is that the 350/2's were ordered just to replace the 321's rather than take over any specific duties.

 

[EM2]

IIRC a few /1`s are working with southern or south-eastern one of those anyways.

They're on Southern, to cover the 377s that have gone to FCC for Thameslink.

 

[MCR247]

The 350s are diagrammed by London Midland as a common fleet at the moment, (if they need a 350 to work Lime St - Brum all day, it doesn't matter if its 350101 or 236.
I think they are aiming to diagram them separately after December (/1s for express & /2s for suburban)

 

[Voyager 2093]

The 350/2s sometimes even make it up to Liverpool, the 350/1s were brought in to work Central/Silverlink combined diagrams for example Liverpool to London.

 

[Mojo]

The 350/2s sometimes even make it up to Liverpool, the 350/1s were brought in to work Central/Silverlink combined diagrams for example Liverpool to London.

"Sometimes" is a bit of an understatement, the majority of the trains I see on the BHM - LIV services are /2s, but as said earlier, it's just pot luck as to what one you get. To be honest I can't say 350/2s are that bad, the major downside is lack of tables. I certaintly had a nicer journey today on a 350/2 to Liverpool and back than I do on a Voyager to Bristol.

 

[Voyager 2093]

On occasions I should say 350s do make it all the way up to Liverpool

 

[SWT Driver]

If they'd have had any sort of common sense they'd have ordered a 344 (AC version of the 444) which would have been far more appropriate for long distance travel, the 350's which are just the AC version of the 450 aren't really suitable for such long journeys, as they're really outer suburban units.

The only benefit of the 350's is their rapid acceleration, their primary problem is their cramped seating, heavy bogies (increased track wear) & crap brakes!

It should be noted that SWT's 450's regularly make it to Bournemouth, Poole & Weymouth, one of those services has on more than one occasion been formed of a 450/5 or HC unit, No 1st Class!

 

[MCR247]

If they'd have had any sort of common sense they'd have ordered a 344 (AC version of the 444) which would have been far more appropriate for long distance travel, the 350's which are just the AC version of the 450 aren't really suitable for such long journeys, as they're really outer suburban units.

The only benefit of the 350's is their rapid acceleration, their primary problem is their cramped seating, heavy bogies (increased track wear) & crap brakes!

It should be noted that SWT's 450's regularly make it to Bournemouth, Poole & Weymouth, one of those services has on more than one occasion been formed of a 450/5 or HC unit, No 1st Class!

The 444s are no longer in production, and I doubt they were when /2s were ordered. But I suppose the first batch of 350s were only made because they were meant to be 450s

 

[SWT Driver]

It wouldn't be difficult to restart the production line again.

Mind you who in their right mind would want to buy a track crucifying tank like a 444 in the first place?
Ooo, I forgot the mickey mouse outfit called Stagecoach.

 

[MCR247]

I like 444s, although I dont drive them

 

[SWT Driver]

I miss my Wessies! :cry::cry::cry:

Now I have to drive bloody Kraut Krap!

 

[Pumbaa]

LM had a really good period last month of correct diagramming. Recently though, it's been treated with "lets just get a train out of Northampton...".

I certainly hope it's a /1 on the Trent Valley stopper next week!

 

[royaloak]

It wouldn't be difficult to restart the production line again.

Unfortunately when the 444 production was finished, the Spanish lot asked if anymore were going to be built in the future Siemens said no so they scrapped the jigs instead of storing them, shame , so impossible to build anymore without vast expense so it would have to be a large order to make it worthwhile.

 

[devon_metro]

I miss my Wessies! :cry::cry::cry:

Now I have to drive bloody Kraut Krap!

I've had to endure a 450 from Weymouth - Brockenhurst on a so called "fast" service, suffice to say, I much enjoyed 442401 when their days were numbered.

Stagecoach are a joke, always makes me laugh going past Salisbury DMUD and seeing about 30 158s doing nothing, whilst crammed onto a FGW unit. All for the sake of a 10 car service to Waterloo in the peak. How much did they over bid to the DafT again? :roll::-x

 

[Drsatan]

you cant say for a fact that /1`s are for long distance and /2`s commuter, they are both for London Midland long distance services, IIRC a few /1`s are working with southern or south-eastern one of those anyways.

I think the reason why 350/1s can't be kept on Trent Valley services and 350/2s on Northampton trains is because LM are still lending a few to Southern to cover for the loss of their 319s.

 

[MCR247]

Of their 377s actually

 

[Juniper Driver]

I miss my Wessies! :cry::cry::cry:

Now I have to drive bloody Kraut Krap!

I don't really miss the wessies...I even got another breakdown in a month before they were withdrawn from SWT.Did like them though.

I heard they had been remotored.

 

[NXEA!]

Yesterday i observed at Harrow & Wealdstone in an hour 350's 234 and 262 on Crewe services and 118 and 103 on Tring services! I do hope they sort out the diagramming soon!

 

[87015]

Yesterday i observed at Harrow & Wealdstone in an hour 350's 234 and 262 on Crewe services and 118 and 103 on Tring services! I do hope they sort out the diagramming soon!

Most of the Tring/M.Keynes 350/1 diagrams work off key peak hour "cobbler" Northampton commuter services which are, and will be, booked 350/1 as part of the franchise commitment. After all, those buying the season tickets that provide most of the franchise's incomes are just as entitled to comfy units as your occasional, slightly longer distance traveller. You get a lot more people sitting on the train for an hour south of northampton than you do for the hour going north who pay peanuts.

 

[LouJ]

I use the Liverpool Birmingham services every day. Most units are now 350/2 which offer an appalling level of comfort for inter-city services. A lack of tables for light refreshments served from the trolley, narrow seat width, tighter seat pitch and almost vertical seat backs make these particularly uncomfortable. I also use the Crewe Euston service regularly and sitting on a 350/2 for nearly three hours is a painful experience - believe me!

A lady joing a 350/2 at New Street summed it up when she asked the conductor "where were the seats for grown ups?" She was right - these units are some of the worst sardine cans in the country and much less comfortable than the 321s they replaced. That's improvement for you!

 

[SWT Driver]

I use the Liverpool Birmingham services every day. Most units are now 350/2 which offer an appalling level of comfort for inter-city services. A lack of tables for light refreshments served from the trolley, narrow seat width, tighter seat pitch and almost vertical seat backs make these particularly uncomfortable. I also use the Crewe Euston service regularly and sitting on a 350/2 for nearly three hours is a painful experience - believe me!

A lady joing a 350/2 at New Street summed it up when she asked the conductor "where were the seats for grown ups?" She was right - these units are some of the worst sardine cans in the country and much less comfortable than the 321s they replaced. That's improvement for you!

Now you know how Portsmouth Line passengers feel, going from the wonderfully comfortable 4-CIG units & 442 units to crappy 444 & 450 units (Kraut Krap!) and they got more 450's because the damned whinging maggots who board at stations from Haslemere upwards constantly moaned about the 444s not having enough seats, so the 444s got taken off & replaced by 450s, where's the relevance here, well LM's 350's were bound for SWT services until the brainless chimps & bean counters of DaFT put a stop to it! :roll:

If these buffoons had let the 350's go to SWT as planned then LM may well have got something considerably better.

 

[MCR247]

I do think 350s should have gone to SWT, as for the Portsmouth direct line could have them, worse than 444s, but better than 450s right?

 

[jopsuk]

They weren't going to Southern- SWT, as said. They were actually originally ordered as five-car High Capacity 450s. The specification for them was changed very early during the build though to that of the 350s.

 

[northwichcat]

Prior to the 350s being introduced on Liverpool-Birmingham, 158s and 170s were used on services that continued to Stansted Airport with some 323s appearing on a selection of the services that didn't continue south beyond Birmingham. With CT spiliting the Liverpool-Stansted Airport service it meant the Liverpool journeys were completly under overhead electrics so if 350s hadn't appeared on Liverpool-Birmingham there probably would have been objection to CT using DMUs on journeys 100% under wires.

You could easily say the 350/1s are less of a long distance train than 158s and 170s. However, the reality is Northern and probably other TOCs let 150s with 3+2 seating run 2 hour journeys. The only problem is London Midland offer catering on Liverpool-Birmingham but a lack of tables on 350/2s creates a problem.

 

[TheSlash]

Rolling Contact Fatigue. A relatively unheard of thing on the Southern region until four years ago.
I have been looking at some track today that is subject to an eight car 458 every half hour. The rails are damaged beyond repair.

 

[SWT Driver]

They shouldn't use cheap & nasty Foreign steel then...

 

[devon_metro]

They shouldn't use cheap & nasty Foreign steel then...

Lay off it, i'm sure welsh steel is very good quality

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

Lay off it, i'm sure welsh steel is very good quality

POTM = Post of the Month