Wrexham & Shropshire

[87015]

Branson's one of my idols. It is business to make money yes, but that wasn't his attitude at the formation of Virgin Atlantic! He's a fun entrepreneur, granted, but this is so unlike him... well, strictly speaking it's not him, it's the operator of the Trains branch of Virign.

Virgin Trains are a complete disgrace, I am throughly looking forward to them being being non-existant after 2012. They might have given me a few more years of 87s than there should of been, but they have been a complete and utter money grabbing, PR based, self-loving bunch of ****s at management level from the start - although on the ground staff are in the large superb. I HATE them.

Anyone know which 67s are out at the moment, might go for a spin this weekend as a 'revision break'...

 

[paul1609]

I dont actually think the Virgin service will make much of a difference to be honest.
Wrexham is just a convient place to terminate the service. It also has a crafty twist in that it has attracted Welsh funding for the depot.
I reckon WSMRs target market is between Tame Parkway and Shrewsbury with connections to Mid Wales.
Whenever I've travelled to and from that part of a journey by rail the journey always seems to go wrong and I end up changing at New Street and Shrewsbury and missing connections and end up waiting at places like Machnylleth for hours.
I havent looked up the connections but a train from London direct to Shrewsbury would have my vote for trips to places like LLangollen and the Cambrian Coast.

 

[support-uk-rail]

Virgin Trains are a complete disgrace, I am throughly looking forward to them being being non-existant after 2012. They might have given me a few more years of 87s than there should of been, but they have been a complete and utter money grabbing, PR based, self-loving bunch of ****s at management level from the start - although on the ground staff are in the large superb. I HATE them.

Anyone know which 67s are out at the moment, might go for a spin this weekend as a 'revision break'...

Well, as previously mentioned, the aim of business is to profit...

But between Virgin and XC, who'd you rather run Cross-Country route? Virgin in my opinion.

And let's not forget VIRgin introduced titlting, pendos and voyags"!

 

[voyagerdude220]

I love Virgin Trains, and will be very sad indeed, to see the company go in 2012 :cry:

 

[The Planner]

I reckon WSMRs target market is between Tame Parkway and Shrewsbury with connections to Mid Wales.

Once the Sutton Park line gets sorted in 09/10 they will want Walsall instead, Tame Bridge is a stop gap for the Walsall market.

 

[Respite]

Virgin Trains are a complete disgrace, I am throughly looking forward to them being being non-existant after 2012. They might have given me a few more years of 87s than there should of been, but they have been a complete and utter money grabbing, PR based, self-loving bunch of ****s at management level from the start - although on the ground staff are in the large superb. I HATE them.

I couldn't agree with you more on that!

I have a fair few driver mates on VWC & most of the older hands would be shot of VWC if there was something else to go to locally with the same ish money. Of course the new to the railway staff they have believe all the Virgin hype. There train managers by all accounts seem a complete waste of time except for running around after the passengers doing PR stuff, the drivers I have spoke to all seem to agree that come an incident there are not many they could rely on to help them out as per the rule book. There policy of "Stuff everyone else who dosent use our trains" has made travelling worse for passengers who don't happen to live on the WCML. The way they have Network rail eating out of there hands doesnt help things for any other TOC's either.
As for the 87's etc , well the way they ran them into the ground before Pendo launch was another in my & many other drivers minds a PR trick. "Oh the old trains are crap but our shiney new ones are great!" :???:

Oh & if the APT had as much money thrown into it as pendo's we would have been riding up & down the WCML for the last 20 years on them, which would of been nicer than looking at a pillar for mile after mile. APT as typical british was a great design, emulated & carried on testing with in europe.....result Pendo's.

 

[swissrailpassion]

I was on the Swiss pendolino last month. Spacious, no high seat backs, most in line with windows etc. Restaurant car in the middle of each seven coach set and running as double sets. Compared to the cramped claustrophobic VWC pendolino these are superior in every way. Also PA announcements are done in 4 langauges on tape unlike the often badly miked guard issuing threats to passengers about having the right tickets.

People need to travel around and see how other railways do it better, but then again few countries have had the railway nervous breakdown we have had to endure for the last ten years.

 

[Proud Salopian]

Switzerland does have the world's best railway network... it's a benchmark which this country will never ever match.

 

[gordonthemoron]

is it just me, or is virgintrains the worst TOC website?

 

[voyagerdude220]

I find VT's website rather easy to use.

 

[support-uk-rail]

I also found it easy to use

So they are losing rail in 2012? Why? Their choice?

I think Virgin are OK. Sure, Voyagers don't compare with TGV, Shinkansen and the foreign market, but their the newest thing we've got on British metals.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Finally, a person talking a great deal of sense, about Virgin Trains!!

 

[Respite]

Finally, a person talking a great deal of sense, about Virgin Trains!!

You worry me!

On the subject of the wrexham & shropshire lot, I was just thinking today (whilst awaiting the road behind one of their services at Gobowen)...........where's the brakevan on these trains?? Surely they havent had network rail amend the rule book for them??
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was on the Swiss pendolino last month. Spacious, no high seat backs, most in line with windows etc. Restaurant car in the middle of each seven coach set and running as double sets. Compared to the cramped claustrophobic VWC pendolino these are superior in every way. Also PA announcements are done in 4 langauges on tape unlike the often badly miked guard issuing threats to passengers about having the right tickets.

People need to travel around and see how other railways do it better, but then again few countries have had the railway nervous breakdown we have had to endure for the last ten years.

I also agree a lot with that, people may think I hate pendo's because they are new & I would prefer a 4 wheeled coach pulled by a 3F rather than a pendo.........Hmmm maybe, but maybe not. But what I most hate about pendo's/Voyagers...etc is the fact that they have replaced stock that was nice to travel on (See IC ads from the 90's if you are too young to remember what Mk2's & 3's were like before VWC & VXC ran them into the ground) & instead of travelling in comfort with room to spare with a great view of the world outside we now have a horrible claustrophobic enviroment very similar to airliner's. Things feel cheap & tacky inside like IKEA furniture, it's just nasty. Also looking out of the windows if you are lucky to get a seat with a window rather than a pillar seems to involve stooping down & I'm just shy of 6ft. If ,by the sounds of it like the swiss we had sensible new trains then I wouldnt be so upset about how things on the WCML have become.

As for new trains being better, how many voyagers are left out there running with tilt enabled...everyone I have seen in the last few months is Isolated & locked out of use due to defective hydro systems. Also 3 out of 5 engines working, 1 out of 3 compressors working & engines clanking like Jocko's on both XC & VWC vulgars seems to be the norm. Yeah new trains are fantastic!

 

[thefab444]

About the brakevans, I read somewhere it was something to do with the T+T allowing it to be classed as a MU? Sounds odd, but apparently that's the case.

I wonder when the DVTs and the proper stock will be released.

 

[Respite]

But that doesnt make any sense, T&T loco would still not have the cab to cab coms unless they have rewired the 67's or mk3's. I know they have a fitter riding in the tail 67 as these loco's are not fitted with fire systems, the policy seeming to be let them burn rather than revive a flame damaged loco. Now if it is a fitter riding in rear then how come he is expected to do a guards job? If there are no cab to cab comms & as there is no access to the loco whilst the train is moving I just can't figure out what system they are using to work it. Obviously when the DVT's are back after the mk3's are rewired then that would be normal. I just can't believe they could of got T&T loco's passed as an MU!

??

 

[voyagerdude220]

As for new trains being better, how many voyagers are left out there running with tilt enabled...everyone I have seen in the last few months is Isolated & locked out of use due to defective hydro systems. Also 3 out of 5 engines working, 1 out of 3 compressors working & engines clanking like Jocko's on both XC & VWC vulgars seems to be the norm. Yeah new trains are fantastic!

Perhaps i've just been very lucky, but of the 9 or 10 Super Voyagers i've been on, including 4 in double-set formations, all of them have tilted, and i've only had one isolated engine.

Having said that, all of them have been VWC Super Voyagers, including 221 144, which simply flies along, and acclerates even quicker (i.e. like a 220 does) than any other 221 i've ever had.

I've often thought to myself about the fact that the Super Voyager i've been on hasn't actually tilted towards mid 2007, but i've noticed a big increase in the number of Super Voyagers tilting.

I haven't yet been on a VWC Super Voyager which hasn't tilted since the VWC/VXC split, but it's a bit unfair to compare the two, seeing that XC's network doesn't have anywhere near the number of tilt areas which VWC does.

 

[1D53]

West Coast's sets have to tilt to keep to new timetables especially from December onwards.

 

[The Planner]

About the brakevans, I read somewhere it was something to do with the T+T allowing it to be classed as a MU? Sounds odd, but apparently that's the case.

I wonder when the DVTs and the proper stock will be released.

Is this the rule book section about maximum speeds for less than 4 or 5 coaches due to brake force ?? its pretty non descript in my opinion and can be read that 3 MkIIIs + DVT are enough to run at line speed.

The original test runs we did were on the EWS exec train with its uprated brakes and they were trying to either get their coaches changed or to get some sort of dispensation.

They are not classed as an MU though as they are not allowed to utilise any MU speed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

West Coast's sets have to tilt to keep to new timetables especially from December onwards.

Indeed, we have them timed to run at EPS speeds for Dec 08. We were told that Arriva intended to turn off all the tilts on XC to save costs regardless of their state.

 

[Respite]

Is this the rule book section about maximum speeds for less than 4 or 5 coaches due to brake force ?? its pretty non descript in my opinion and can be read that 3 MkIIIs + DVT are enough to run at line speed.

More the general state of passenger trains that are loco hauled having brake's that can be applied by the guard in the event of a worst case split or stuff along those lines. (I know that ideally the air pipes splitting would be enough to apply the brakes but it has been proven before that not always 100% of the time.) I & a few other drivers who drove loco hauled stock were trying to work it out today, to me it didnt make any sense but I've only ever driven MU's officially, but it seemed wrong to them as well. Do they carry the emergency equipment in the buffet then?

They are not classed as an MU though as they are not allowed to utilise any MU speed.

Yeah I thought that by what the WSMR traincrew road learning with Me said before.

Indeed, we have them timed to run at EPS speeds for Dec 08. We were told that Arriva intended to turn off all the tilts on XC to save costs regardless of their state.

VWC drivers have told me that very few of there Voyagers are tilting now due to failure's with the system.

P.S. Dont say Arriva XC....:grin::grin: They don't allow that! :grin::grin:

 

[TDK]

Is this the rule book section about maximum speeds for less than 4 or 5 coaches due to brake force ?? its pretty non descript in my opinion and can be read that 3 MkIIIs + DVT are enough to run at line speed.

The original test runs we did were on the EWS exec train with its uprated brakes and they were trying to either get their coaches changed or to get some sort of dispensation.

They are not classed as an MU though as they are not allowed to utilise any MU speed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Indeed, we have them timed to run at EPS speeds for Dec 08. We were told that Arriva intended to turn off all the tilts on XC to save costs regardless of their state.

The WSMR sets are classed as engine and stock when it comes to enhanced speeds. It depends on whether the MU/HST speeds are for signal spacing or axle weight if WSMR are applying for enhanced speed running, I can't see any reason why the 67's & 4 vehicles can't run at MU/HST speeds as the brake force exceeds most Diesel MU trains when the enhanced speed is due to signalling. As for the brake van, when the DVT's are in service that is the brake van. Mk 3 coaches all have pass coms and I believe brake handles for stopping a train in an emergency so, yes, there is equipment in the buffet car to stop the train :grin:

 

[yorkie]

The slow speed restrictions for less than 5 coaches apply to Mk1/Mk2s. I am pretty sure they don't apply with Mk3s with any loco.

And, they definitely do not apply to Class 67s anyway.

 

[support-uk-rail]

Ahem! As I said earlier, why are Virgin apparently losing rail in 2012?

Thanks.
Hakzi.

 

[djw1981]

2012 is teh re-franchising of the Intercity West Coast franchise if that is what you mean.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Voyagers don't compare with TGV, Shinkansen and the foreign market, but their the newest thing we've got on British metals.

Obviously except for the 350's, 172's, 222's, 395's and 185's.

 

[class 313]

but their the newest thing we've got on British metals.

Since when have the 220/221s been the newest trains in service?

222s are later then them, not to mention other stock.

 

[kvbham]

Finally, a person talking a great deal of sense, about Virgin Trains!!

I like Virgin Trains too and I hope they retain the West Cost Franchise. We *may* not have had a super fast pendos if it weren't for Virgin!

 

[djw1981]

No... we might have had more Mk4's and a new style loco....

 

[voyagerdude220]

Which I definately would have liked far less, than the Pendolinos which we have today

 

[djw1981]

Why? And I mean this seriously.

For my point of view, I think a loco and coaches are more flexible, smoother and suffer less from the 'computer' failure which seems to beset many TMS systems. The Mk4's are designed for tilt and 140mph running, and a 140mph loco/PC would not be hard to design.

 

[voyagerdude220]

mmmm... Pendolino's with TMS included :-P:razz:

 

[Nym]

well, yes,. but MUs accelarate a lot faster and are more efficent, although even EMUs don't compare to any form of loco haulage for comfort, if the WC timetable was a proper intercity one then the accelaration would come into account a lot less, so they would be able to have loco and stock, or even multiple loco and stock for spliting services like in the good old days of spliting at crewe, that would free up some TV paths