Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway updates

[Chippychips]

An email has gone out ref recruitment, but obviously relevant to the updates here.

A resubmission?
What could they possibly resubmit to get the decision overturned/in their favour, considering the main issue was WCML traffic?

Same route (WCML) but less trains? 3tph?
Different route, avoiding the WCML? But what could that be?

Curious to hear and see what could be conjured up. Anyone here have an idea or how to connect Wrexham to London without using the WCML and without using the same route the old Wrexham and Marylebone used?

 

[NorthWalian]

A resubmission?
What could they possibly resubmit to get the decision overturned/in their favour, considering the main issue was WCML traffic?

Same route (WCML) but less trains? 3tph?
Different route, avoiding the WCML? But what could that be?

Curious to hear and see what could be conjured up. Anyone here have an idea or how to connect Wrexham to London without using the WCML and without using the same route the old Wrexham and Marylebone used?

Looking at the connection options other than Euston generates a route through Birmingham and then to Leicester for St Pancras or Paddington via Reading

Not sure if either are viable.

Maybe the solution is to partner with another operator and run a service from Wrexham to a city with a very frequent and short London service (maybe MKC)

 

[Bob Price]

A Shrewsbury / Birmingham to Paddington service would be interesting.

 

[robspaceman]

A Shrewsbury / Birmingham to Paddington service would be interesting.

Interesting but slow, at least 3.5 hours Shrewsbury-Paddington I’d have thought.

St Pancras via Leicester should be achievable just under three hours of paths can be found.

But the above both academic…

 

[mchunt]

Interesting but slow, at least 3.5 hours Shrewsbury-Paddington I’d have thought.

St Pancras via Leicester should be achievable just under three hours of paths can be found.

But the above both academic…

A call at Hinckley would be nice! You could also knock 15-20mins off not going into Leicester and reversing, but would lose a revenue opportunity. Maybe stop at Luton Airport set down/pickup only.

 

[zwk500]

Interesting but slow, at least 3.5 hours Shrewsbury-Paddington I’d have thought.

St Pancras via Leicester should be achievable just under three hours of paths can be found.

But the above both academic…

This a huge 'if' for all 3 proposed terminals. The Mains into Paddington are just as bad as the WCML fasts between Euston and Rugby and the MML south of Bedford is also hardly a vastly underutilised piece of infrastructure.

 

[jfowkes]

This a huge 'if' for all 3 proposed terminals. The Mains into Paddington are just as bad as the WCML fasts between Euston and Rugby and the MML south of Bedford is also hardly a vastly underutilised piece of infrastructure.

I'm under the impression that MML platform space at St. Pancras is very well utilized also?

 

[357]

I'm under the impression that MML platform space at St. Pancras is very well utilized also?

Run through the Thameslink core to Gatwick?

 

[Zontar]

Looking at the connection options other than Euston generates a route through Birmingham and then to Leicester for St Pancras or Paddington via Reading

Not sure if either are viable.

Maybe the solution is to partner with another operator and run a service from Wrexham to a city with a very frequent and short London service (maybe MKC)

I think you could be on to something here. If they can utilise existing paths it would certainly make it more viable.
I just can't see anything else being that attractive a route for customers.

 

[NorthWalian]

I think you could be on to something here. If they can utilise existing paths it would certainly make it more viable.
I just can't see anything else being that attractive a route for customers.

Maybe an arrangement could be reached to run a joint operation with Avanti and take their Chester routes off their hands (perhaps in return for a % of Crewe and Midlands > Euston tickets). Getting them to agree for the morning would be hard but their afternoon and evening services are probably on the chopping block anyway.

They can still then run the Holyheads at a big convenience premium and TfW can ferry people from the coast and borderlands line to Chester/Wrexham.

 

[The Planner]

Maybe an arrangement could be reached to run a joint operation with Avanti and take their Chester routes off their hands (perhaps in return for a % of Crewe and Midlands > Euston tickets). Getting them to agree for the morning would be hard but their afternoon and evening services are probably on the chopping block anyway.

They can still then run the Holyheads at a big convenience premium and TfW can ferry people from the coast and borderlands line to Chester/Wrexham.

There is no way Avanti will give up paths to an OAO, let alone the DfT allowing it.

 

[weeklycommuter]

A resubmission?
What could they possibly resubmit to get the decision overturned/in their favour, considering the main issue was WCML traffic?

Same route (WCML) but less trains? 3tph?
Different route, avoiding the WCML? But what could that be?

Curious to hear and see what could be conjured up. Anyone here have an idea or how to connect Wrexham to London without using the WCML and without using the same route the old Wrexham and Marylebone used?

Surely varying the proposed route to go to London Marylebone instead of London Euston is their only realistic option.

If they anticipate their re-submission will be done in November we should soon find out their plans.

 

[NorthWalian]

There is no way Avanti will give up paths to an OAO, let alone the DfT allowing it.

It was a bit out there to be honest but it would be easy profit if one could get a % without having to do anything.

 

[KashmireHawker]

The plan has been formally resubmitted to the Office for Rail and Road, as per the below statement by WMSR today.

They are looking for 4 services each way, which would include stops at Wellington in Shropshire and may include Daralston and Willenhall once they are open in the future.

WSMR resubmits formal application to the ORR – 1 December 2025 - WSMR

“Wrexham, Shropshire and Midlands Railway is committed to delivering the connectivity that communities across Wales and England need and deserve. Our resubmitted application reflects stakeholder feedback and demonstrates how we’ve listened to MPs and regional partners who urged us to reapply...

www.wsmr.co.uk

Wrexham, Shropshire and Midlands Railway (WSMR) has submitted a new application to run direct passenger trains from Wrexham, Wales into London’s Euston station. The new bid follows the rejection of its previous application by the Office for Rail and Road (ORR) earlier this year.

In a new approach the latest application seeks to utilise spare capacity recently given up between Liverpool and London. WSMR is bidding to run four trains per day in each direction and is looking for a seven-year contract or longer.

As with its previous application the proposed trains would call at Gobowen, Shrewsbury, Telford, Wolverhampton, Walsall, Coleshill Parkway, Nuneaton and Milton Keynes. The new plans also include a stop at Wellington. Calls at Willenhall and Darlaston may also be added as those stations open. The first service would leave Wrexham at 06.05 and arriving in to London Euston at 09.32.

A WSMR spokesperson said:

“Wrexham, Shropshire and Midlands Railway is committed to delivering the connectivity that communities across Wales and England need and deserve. Our resubmitted application reflects stakeholder feedback and demonstrates how we’ve listened to MPs and regional partners who urged us to reapply.

“This application differs from our previous submission, which includes us requesting fewer train paths and offering an additional stop at Wellington, enhancing connectivity for people in Shropshire. Furthermore, by making better use of available capacity – including paths that have been released and remain unused – we aim to strengthen regional links and support economic growth.

“WSMR’s new open access service will provide faster, more convenient travel options for passengers in Wrexham, Shrewsbury, Wellington, Telford, Walsall and beyond, improving access to jobs, education and leisure opportunities. We remain committed to introducing this service for the regions we serve and delivering benefits for communities along the route.”

 

[weeklycommuter]

The plan has been formally resubmitted to the Office for Rail and Road, as per the below statement by WMSR today.

They are looking for 4 services each way, which would include stops at Wellington in Shropshire and may include Daralston and Willenhall once they are open in the future.

WSMR resubmits formal application to the ORR – 1 December 2025 - WSMR

“Wrexham, Shropshire and Midlands Railway is committed to delivering the connectivity that communities across Wales and England need and deserve. Our resubmitted application reflects stakeholder feedback and demonstrates how we’ve listened to MPs and regional partners who urged us to reapply...

www.wsmr.co.uk

I would expect the Office of Rail and Road to reject this application from WSMR on exactly the same grounds of no available capacity on the West Coast Mainline as the previous application from WSMR was rejected.

 

[KashmireHawker]

I would expect the Office of Rail and Road to reject this application from WSMR on exactly the same grounds of no available capacity on the West Coast Mainline as the previous application from WSMR was rejected.

It would not be at all surprising if this was the result.

It would be a shame, but entirely understandable knowing just how much of a log jam the WCML actually is.

 

[Chippychips]

I would expect the Office of Rail and Road to reject this application from WSMR on exactly the same grounds of no available capacity on the West Coast Mainline as the previous application from WSMR was rejected.

But then if they've targeted "[the Avanti] paths that have been released and remain unused", isn't that a case of simply handing the baton over?
Haven't gained, haven't lost, just essentially "replaced" by putting a new Operator on the label of these paths. Or am I misunderstanding what WSMR have said?

 

[Class 170101]

But then if they've targeted "[the Avanti] paths that have been released and remain unused", isn't that a case of simply handing the baton over?
Haven't gained, haven't lost, just essentially "replaced" by putting a new Operator on the label of these paths. Or am I misunderstanding what WSMR have said?

But there aren't any released paths? The Avanti paths still operate between Birmingham New Street and London Euston as part of the 3tph pattern

 

[Bald Rick]

I do sometimes wonder what alternative universe some of these proposals come from.

As per the other thread on the Manchester - London service, there isn’t a spare path into Euston between 0900-1000. From the new timetable, the proposed 0932 arrival slot for that first WSMR service has a Manchester service in it (arriving 0931). Either side of it there is a Lumo arrival from Preston at 0928, an Avanti from Liverpool at 0934 and an Avanti from, err, Wrexham at 0938. The latter of which departs Wrexham almost an hour after the WSMR service is proposed to.

If only there was Smart timetabling for the WCML…

 

[NorthWalian]

Rail Mag is claiming that the plan is to run diesel's on the paths that Avanti can't use to Liverpool due to them not having enough diesels for it.

I assume it will still be rejected.

Source - https://www.railmagazine.com/news/wsmr-resubmits-bid-for

The retimed services also plan to make use of unused Euston-Liverpool paths on the WCML south of Nuneaton.


Avanti West Coast has been unable to use them because of power supply issues. WSMR’s plan to use Class 221/222 diesel multiple units would alleviate that.

In its application, WSMR said: “The proposed specified equipment is diesel powered (Class 22x) and WSMR is aware of Network Rail’s concerns about the capacity of AC power traction supply on the southern end of the West Coast Main Line. WSMR is satisfied that capacity exists at proposed maintenance facilities on route to refuel and maintain the Specified Equipment as required.”

 

[Bald Rick]

Rail Mag is claiming that the plan is to run diesel's on the paths that Avanti can't use to Liverpool due to them not having enough diesels for it.

I assume it will still be rejected.

Those Avanti services will be running….

 

[Snow1964]

Rail Mag is claiming that the plan is to run diesel's on the paths that Avanti can't use to Liverpool due to them not having enough diesels for it.

I assume it will still be rejected.

The ORR has to review a case, a competitor sitting on a path which it is choosing not to utilise, and has no announcement or stock on order, so that it intends to utilise it at a future date, is a very poor reason that it should automatically be retained indefinitely (rather than handed back).

Someone can't say they need the path if it is years since they used it, or have never used it since it was granted. The Regulator is obliged to find valid reasons to object, not spurious ones.

 

[alistairlees]

Those Avanti services will be running….

Has it been decided that Network Rail's retention, in 2023 (I think it was then) of the empty paths for Avanti to use, which it eventually did in 2024, without offering those paths to other potential operators, was the correct / legal behaviour? The ORR asked Network Rail to investigate (itself?) in July, but I don't know what the outcome was

 

[weeklycommuter]

Rail Mag is claiming that the plan is to run diesel's on the paths that Avanti can't use to Liverpool due to them not having enough diesels for it.

I assume it will still be rejected.

Those Avanti services will be running….

Which are the train paths that Avanti is not currently using and which WSMR is going to bid for? Avanti run electric trains including the new Class 807 trains London Euston to and from Liverpool Lime Street and diesel trains and the new bi-mode Class 805 trains London Euston to and from Chester and North Wales. The following news report refers to Avanti train paths between London Euston and Chester and North Wales.

Plans revived for direct rail route from Wrexham to London Euston

The Wrexham, Shropshire and Midlands Railway Company has resubmitted a revised application to operate the service, despite being rejected in July v.1

wrexham.com

Full details are yet to be published, however WSMR has confirmed that the revised plans include fewer train paths – it is proposing four daily services each way rather than the original five – and including a new stop in Wellington, Shropshire.
Part of the bid plans to utilise train path rights previously operated temporarily by Avanti West Coast services which ran from Chester and Holyhead to London Euston. These rights are due to end this month.

 

[NorthWalian]

Which are the train paths that Avanti is not currently using and which WSMR is going to bid for? Avanti run electric trains including the new Class 807 trains London Euston to and from Liverpool Lime Street and diesel trains and the new bi-mode Class 805 trains London Euston to and from Chester and North Wales. The following news report refers to Avanti train paths between London Euston and Chester and North Wales.

Maybe they intend to use some of the recently cut services then such as the old 19:32 which would have a 22:00 or so arrival into London

I think WSMR’s main competition will be the TFW to Crewe/Birmingham then LNR to London rather than Avanti’s services. If they can offer sub-£40 returns then they will get customers.

They will likely attract a lot of smiles in Wellington though even at £80

 

[mikestone1952]

The track access application is now on the Network Rail website. Down to four trains, which have schedules including Wellington times but no Darlaston times , although still proposing to call there , in addition to Willenhall and "Shropshire & Mid-Wales Parkway" and no Aldridge times. Later references to Aldridge remain which I missed on first reading.

 

[The Planner]

The track access application is now on the Network Rail website. Down to four trains, which have schedules including Wellington times but no Darlaston times , although still proposing to call there , in addition to Willenhall and "Shropshire & Mid-Wales Parkway" and no Aldridge times. Later references to Aldridge remain which I missed on first reading.

Aldridge would only be in one direction anyway. Can't see the point of that.

 

[Chippychips]

The track access application is now on the Network Rail website. Down to four trains, which have schedules including Wellington times but no Darlaston times , although still proposing to call there , in addition to Willenhall and "Shropshire & Mid-Wales Parkway" and no Aldridge times. Later references to Aldridge remain which I missed on first reading.

Do you have the link by any chance?

 

[weeklycommuter]

Do you have the link by any chance?

This is the link to the Form P on the ORR website

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2025-12/wsmr-ltd-s17-form-p.pdf

1.5 Executive summary of the proposed contract or amendment:
This application is for the operation of 4 new Open Access train services in each direction on Monday to Saturdays (Every Week Day - EWD) and 4 on Sundays, between Wrexham General and London Euston. The train services shall call at the following intermediate stations - Gobowen, Shrewsbury, Telford Central, Wolverhampton, Walsall, Coleshill Parkway, Nuneaton, and Milton Keynes. This application also seeks approval for the following additional calls: Wellington (Shropshire) and at the following new stations once operational – Shropshire and Mid-Wales Parkway, Darlaston and Willenhall.
The track access rights being sought to operate the above services consist of 3 x Firm Rights in each direction (EWD and Sundays) and 1 x Contingent (EWD and Sundays). These train services provide improved frequency and new direct connectivity opportunities between London and the towns/cities
Proposed commencement date: Within the December 2026 Timetable Period
End date: May 2033 (or date as outlined in section 3.3)
Date approval or directions wanted by: Earliest Opportunity

 

[Chippychips]

This is the link to the Form P at https://www.networkrail.co.uk/indus...formation-for-operators/sale-of-access-rights

cheers mate. much appreciated.