Wrexham redouble

[Gareth Marston]

The current 60mph is from about 500m from Saltney Junction (50mph) until you get to about 500m from Wrexham North Junction (50) then to 60mph again until Croess Newydd Box where it goes to 70mph/60. It then drops to 50 approaching Ruabon to go back to 60 until you have crossed Cefn Viaduct where it is 70 all the way until just outside Shrewsbury. As far as I am ware on the down it is 70mph from after the road bridge outside Ruabon until Wrexham North Junction.

Higher linepseeds on the Cambrian Mainline

 

[D1009]

Oh dear. No improvement up/down Gresford Bank then.

Would the curvature on Gresford bank allow any more than 60 anyway?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Would the curvature on Gresford bank allow any more than 60 anyway?

The original proposal was 75mph (with 75mph turnouts at Rossett and Wrexham).
Now it looks like trains will slow to 60 at Rossett for the grind up the bank.

 

[TDK]

Higher linepseeds on the Cambrian Mainline

The Cambrian line is the longest siding on the UK rail network
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Would the curvature on Gresford bank allow any more than 60 anyway?

With re-profiling it was planned to increase to 75mph
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The original proposal was 75mph (with 75mph turnouts at Rossett and Wrexham).
Now it looks like trains will slow to 60 at Rossett for the grind up the bank.

Many of the unites especially the 158/150 & 2 car 175's would find it a struggle to maintain 75mph up gresford bank, there are not many 158's that can maintain 60mph anyway here is an average at the moment at 60mph:

175 3 car will maintain 60mph
175 2 car will drop to 55
158 will drop to 55
150 will drop to 50

all the units differ and some are better than others but I cannot see many maintaining 75mph.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So, has the redouble been reinstated then?

 

[merlodlliw]

Its still the half job, Rossett to Saltney become the dual tracks. Rossett to Bersham(Wales) to remain much the same.
(with reference to your last quote TDK)

 

[Gareth Marston]

The Cambrian line is the longest siding on the UK rail network
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


With re-profiling it was planned to increase to 75mph
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Many of the unites especially the 158/150 & 2 car 175's would find it a struggle to maintain 75mph up gresford bank, there are not many 158's that can maintain 60mph anyway here is an average at the moment at 60mph:

175 3 car will maintain 60mph
175 2 car will drop to 55
158 will drop to 55
150 will drop to 50

all the units differ and some are better than others but I cannot see many maintaining 75mph.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So, has the redouble been reinstated then?

The eastern section in the catchment of the Upper Severn Valley is a fast siding though.........Shrewsbury to Chester is a plod along line compare to Newtown to Shrewsbury.
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I am told that the latest redesign work for the A483 Newtown bypass now sees the road go over the A483 east of Newtown rather than under it and apparently the design brief specifies that space must be left to allow for the Cambrian line to be double track at this point!

 

[merlodlliw]

I am told that the latest redesign work for the A483 Newtown bypass now sees the road go over the A483 east of Newtown rather than under it and apparently the design brief specifies that space must be left to allow for the Cambrian line to be double track at this point!

Do you mean it goes over the Cambrian as opposed to under it as now,What would be the benefit of dual tracks there,passing point etc.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Do you mean it goes over the Cambrian as opposed to under it as now,What would be the benefit of dual tracks there,passing point etc.

This is the proposed bypass which allegedly work is suppose to start on building it this year. The bypass is planned to cross the Cambrian quarter mile west of where the A483 runs alongside the line, before the current town limit. The line east of Newtown was always single track, it was double west of it to Moat Lane Junction. The person I spoke to seems to think it was Network Rail that specified it.

 

[The Planner]

We will do, even if it is unlikely it will ever happen it tends to get put in the spec, especially if we aren't paying for it.

 

[snowball]

Press release on the change of bypass route

Outline map of new and old routes

More detailed map of OLD route

The idea of it starting this year seems fanciful. It still has to go through its statutory processes.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Press release on the change of bypass route

Outline map of new and old routes

More detailed map of OLD route

The idea of it starting this year seems fanciful. It still has to go through its statutory processes.

Cardiff have told our local AM work starts this year presumably to keep him from going on about it, apparently Newtown will derive great economic benefit from it according to the local bypass brigade. I don't subscribe to this view and the school run and Newtown residents driving to work will still jam up the town centre after it's built.
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We will do, even if it is unlikely it will ever happen it tends to get put in the spec, especially if we aren't paying for it.

If BR had this policy back in the 80's this thread wouldn't exist!

 

[The Planner]

The second Severn crossing is a case in point, the bridge across the railway there is incredbly wide to accomodate a plan to remodel Severn Tunnel Jn that never happened.

 

[The Informer]

Work has commenced on the re-double i hear. Contractors started last week.

 

[merlodlliw]

Work has commenced on the re-double i hear. Contractors started last week.

Thanks for that,ill look around for the contractors banners. Thats a few week early,probabley to shut me up

Bob

 

[The Informer]

If Mark Isherwood's comments are anything to go by then the next announcement will be something like this...

"....they cant be arsed funding the re-double now, all they're gonna do is oil the fishplates instead "

 

[merlodlliw]

If Mark Isherwood's comments are anything to go by then the next announcement will be something like this...

"....they cant be arsed funding the re-double now, all they're gonna do is oil the fishplates instead "

No ones seen anything yet,Rossett was empty on Tuesday and that's the big patch of NR land, which I presume will be used for stores etc.

As for Mark Isherwood and Aled Roberts at least they speak out, and know the area unlike a few local WG cronies afraid to rock the boat.

 

[The Informer]

Bob,
There are a few bods knocking around, trust me. But what they are up to exactly i do not know. I'll keep my ear to the ground!

 

[merlodlliw]

Bob,
There are a few bods knocking around, trust me. But what they are up to exactly i do not know. I'll keep my ear to the ground!

Cheers your connections are "Top notch" as our American cousins say.

Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

Bob,
There are a few bods knocking around, trust me. But what they are up to exactly i do not know. I'll keep my ear to the ground!

There was a lot of what looked very much like new points at Saltney at the start of the week.

Is the redoubling happening or not?

Starting to seriously worry about the competency of the Welsh Government - the row about the Valleys electrification and rowing amongst themselves about the NHS. Are they capable of delivering this?

 

[Squaddie]

Starting to seriously worry about the competency of the Welsh Government - the row about the Valleys electrification and rowing amongst themselves about the NHS. Are they capable of delivering this?

Please let's not invite more political point-scoring into a thread about Welsh railways: the Welsh government is no more nor less competent than any other government in the UK. The Westminster government doesn't exactly have an exemplary track record when it comes to planning rail infrastructure projects, and the Scottish government has made an almighty mess of their independence campaign.

 

[jones_bangor]

Please let's not invite more political point-scoring into a thread about Welsh railways: the Welsh government is no more nor less competent than any other government in the UK. The Westminster government doesn't exactly have an exemplary track record when it comes to planning rail infrastructure projects, and the Scottish government has made an almighty mess of their independence campaign.

Well the whole basis to proceed with this scheme is political appeasement - as far as I understood the Minister had come to the conclusion that the cost benefit wasn't there, and cancelled it. The redouble that isn't actually a redouble was only revived after local uproar, even though it will be a superfluous improvement.

 

[Squaddie]

Well the whole basis to proceed with this scheme is political appeasement - as far as I understood the Minister had come to the conclusion that the cost benefit wasn't there, and cancelled it. The redouble that isn't actually a redouble was only revived after local uproar, even though it will be a superfluous improvement.

Which really just proves that the Welsh Government can do nothing right as far as some on this forum are concerned.

So, let's assume that you're correct when you say that the government decided that the project could not be justified on cost-benefit grounds. Had they cancelled the project, the criticism here (and elsewhere) would have been fierce; but they decided to go ahead with it anyway and now you're accusing them of "political appeasement".

The government could hand out £50 notes on the streets of Wrexham and some would complain that the notes weren't crisp enough.

 

[northwichcat]

The government could hand out £50 notes on the streets of Wrexham and some would complain that the notes weren't crisp enough.

If they did that I'm sure some people would complain, why should people walking past a random spot in Wrexham be handed £50 notes (funded by taxpayers) while other people don't get them? If it was Richard Branson handing out £50 notes from his own funds then I think people would be happier.

 

[Gareth Marston]

If they did that I'm sure some people would complain, why should people walking past a random spot in Wrexham be handed £50 notes (funded by taxpayers) while other people don't get them? If it was Richard Branson handing out £50 notes from his own funds then I think people would be happier.

Someone did that outside Aberystwyth station a couple of years back albeit used notes, they were later arrested and detained under the mental health act!

 

[jones_bangor]

Which really just proves that the Welsh Government can do nothing right as far as some on this forum are concerned.

So, let's assume that you're correct when you say that the government decided that the project could not be justified on cost-benefit grounds. Had they cancelled the project, the criticism here (and elsewhere) would have been fierce; but they decided to go ahead with it anyway and now you're accusing them of "political appeasement".

Political appeasement, flip flopping, weakness - you could describe it as you want.

It'll be a shame for the whole Chester - Newport section if this infrastructure "gesture" means that less money is spent on improvements that would have increased capacity and improved journey times.....

P.S.I'm not enemy of devolution, but lack of capability, leadership and courage does seem to be dragging the Senedd and Government into disrepute.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Political appeasement, flip flopping, weakness - you could describe it as you want.

It'll be a shame for the whole Chester - Newport section if this infrastructure "gesture" means that less money is spent on improvements that would have increased capacity and improved journey times.....

P.S.I'm not enemy of devolution, but lack of capability, leadership and courage does seem to be dragging the Senedd and Government into disrepute.

What other increased capacity and improved journey time work that the Welsh Government could fund between Chester and Newport are you thinking about?

 

[The Planner]

Marches is getting re-signalled in a couple of years but that is a NR scheme only AFAIK.

 

[Llanigraham]

Marches is getting re-signalled in a couple of years but that is a NR scheme only AFAIK.

Yes, don't we staff who work there know it!! Bye Bye job, hello dole queue.

 

[jones_bangor]

What other increased capacity and improved journey time work that the Welsh Government could fund between Chester and Newport are you thinking about?

I just worry that in a austerity climate, the section between Wrexham and Shrewsbury doesn't see signalling and line speed improvements.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Marches is getting re-signalled in a couple of years but that is a NR scheme only AFAIK.

But at least the WG doesn't have to pay for it.

Actually it means the loss of a set of unique signal boxes between Shrewsbury and Hereford which I think date from the early days of the line's operation.
I hope at least one is kept for posterity in some form.
In their way they are as iconic as Severn Bridge Jn box with their unusual shape.
I'm thinking of the ones at Hereford, Leominster, Woofferton etc (not the pill-box at Onibury!).