Wrexham Blocked in Oct.

[merlodlliw]

I notice on the W/S website Wrexham General is blocked from Friday 16th Oct to Monday 20th Oct.

Anyone know why?

Also Gresford bank as been relaid with new track & steel sleepers
over the past few weekends.

 

[krus_aragon]

NR gives few details, but here they are:

Friday 16th
Saturday 17th-Sunday 18th

It seems that Chester-Gobowen will be closed for the first four weekends in October, with the Borderlands line also closed on the 17/18th and 24/25th.

 

[merlodlliw]

NR gives few details, but here they are:

Friday 16th
Saturday 17th-Sunday 18th

It seems that Chester-Gobowen will be closed for the first four weekends in October, with the Borderlands line also closed on the 17/18th and 24/25th.

Many thanks for the info.

 

[krus_aragon]

Some further details (or lack of). There aren't any applications that relate to those lines on Network Rail's Network Change page, so it's probably routine maintenance. No sudden starts on redoubling Chester-Wrexham or electrifying the Borderlands.

 

[The Planner]

Still not at a final design yet, the network change is months away.

 

[krus_aragon]

Still not at a final design yet, the network change is months away.

The redoubling, I presume?

 

[robert2000]

he just said it wasnt the re doubling, which is not supposed to start until 2010 i was told.

 

[krus_aragon]

Just clarifying it wasn't Borderlands electrification-related. I'd mentioned both in my earlier post.

 

[TDK]

I notice on the W/S website Wrexham General is blocked from Friday 16th Oct to Monday 20th Oct.

Anyone know why?

Also Gresford bank as been relaid with new track & steel sleepers
over the past few weekends.

A new signalling system is being installed at Croess Newydd SB

 

[furryfeet]

so will railtrack make proper use of this renewal work and move all the comms cables etc out od the way so as to premit easy redoubling of the track between wrexham and chester in the future ? ( i.e. similar to what is happening on the coltswold route at present )

 

[The Planner]

Railtrack ?? I doubt they will touch anything as the re-doubling scheme isnt a stage where they know what is going to happen. The Croes-Newydd works were probably finalised before the re-doubling was thought about to be honest.

The only reason they are doing that on the Cotswolds is because the track was slewed when it was singled, I dont think that happened on Wrexham - Saltney.

 

[robert2000]

is any1 actually clear on wats happening about re doubling wrexham-saltney?

 

[merlodlliw]

Just read this on nat rail, nothing about Wrexham, but if any of you want
a 200 mile diversion this is the train,



19/10/2009
End date 23/10/2009
Route Affected
TOC Affected Arriva Trains Wales
Description The following changes will apply:

Monday only

23:22 Chester to Manchester Piccadilly will be diverted via Norwich. A bus will run between Chester and Manchester Piccadilly. Journey times will be extended by up to 65 minutes


This made me smile,

 

[The Planner]

is any1 actually clear on wats happening about re doubling wrexham-saltney?

Ive mentioned quite a few times what is actually planned in various threads. The idea is to re-double the section from Wrexham to the first A483 bridge, leave the central section single, then re-double from the second A483 bridge to Saltney. There are likely to be 3 new IB signals put in from Gobowen to Shrewsbury to get the headways down and the speed will be increased. Its still not at a finalised stage though.

 

[tbtc]

Just read this on nat rail, nothing about Wrexham, but if any of you want
a 200 mile diversion this is the train,



19/10/2009
End date 23/10/2009
Route Affected
TOC Affected Arriva Trains Wales
Description The following changes will apply:

Monday only

23:22 Chester to Manchester Piccadilly will be diverted via Norwich. A bus will run between Chester and Manchester Piccadilly. Journey times will be extended by up to 65 minutes


This made me smile,

In fairness, that's a pretty quick journey from Chester into Manchester via East Anglia in just over an hour

 

[TDK]

Ive mentioned quite a few times what is actually planned in various threads. The idea is to re-double the section from Wrexham to the first A483 bridge, leave the central section single, then re-double from the second A483 bridge to Saltney. There are likely to be 3 new IB signals put in from Gobowen to Shrewsbury to get the headways down and the speed will be increased. Its still not at a finalised stage though.

I doubt it very much if they will be IB signals,they will more than likely be automatic with axle counters as the signal in the Baschurch area currently is. To be honest I doubt if they will add any signals from Gobowen to Shrewsbury, the signals are needed more between Gobowen to Wrexham as the pathing time is 20 odd minutes, the speed after Wrexham North Junction will most likely be 60mph untill the foot of Gresford bank due to the tight curves. I would be interested to know where you are getting this information from?

 

[The Planner]

Working for NR helps, and seeing the documentation does too. The idea is for 3 block signals to get rid of the 11 minute headways from Shrewsbury to Gobowen. Adding more between Wrexham and Gobowen doesnt really help you, as if you are behind a stopper then you get pathed out, and if you are infront, likelihood is you get pathed out for the 11 minute headway.

 

[robert2000]

so when will the re doubling be completed by then.

 

[The Planner]

If it is finished within 18 months I would be suprised. There is no set date for it, but Id speculate at the back end of 2010, early 2011.

 

[TDK]

Working for NR helps, and seeing the documentation does too. The idea is for 3 block signals to get rid of the 11 minute headways from Shrewsbury to Gobowen. Adding more between Wrexham and Gobowen doesnt really help you, as if you are behind a stopper then you get pathed out, and if you are infront, likelihood is you get pathed out for the 11 minute headway.

All the passenger services between Gobowen and Wrexham are stoppers, the pathing time is 20 minutes Shrewsbury to Gobowen with an automatic signal at Baschurch that gives an 11 minute path, the problem is from Gobowen to Wrexham where the pathing time is 19 minutes, a signal between Chirk and Ruabon would cut this to 10 minuits. This will greatly improve the headway for services both for ATW & WSMR as on many occasions the wait at gobowen is up to 7 minutes. I cannot see how signals placed between Shrewsbury and Gobowen would be cost effective as the headway will be minimal taking into account the headway between Gobowen and Wrexham.

 

[The Planner]

By pathing time, do you mean the sectional running time ?? as pathing time is a completely different thing. Without looking at the schedules, I would find it incredibly hard to believe that all the services have 20 minutes of padding in them. How would a signal between Chirk and Ruabon cut the running time to 10 minutes ?? You are not increasing the line speed. You are also assuming no traffic will ever go down the line without stopping at all stations.

 

[TDK]

By pathing time, do you mean the sectional running time ?? as pathing time is a completely different thing. Without looking at the schedules, I would find it incredibly hard to believe that all the services have 20 minutes of padding in them. How would a signal between Chirk and Ruabon cut the running time to 10 minutes ?? You are not increasing the line speed. You are also assuming no traffic will ever go down the line without stopping at all stations.

Yes, pathing, section running time,I didn't mean cutting the running time from Gobowen to Wrexham I meant the headway from Gobowen. If a train leaves Shrewsbury behind another, it will need to wait until the proceeding train has passed the overlap of the signal at Baschurch, this usually about a 7 - 9 minute wait. Once leaving Shrewsbury the the service in rear will be checked at the signal at Baschurch however not causing much delay. On arriving at Gobowen you will need to wait for the proceeding train to clear Croess Newydd home, 99% of trains are stoppers stopping at Chirk (5 minutes from Gobowen) and Ruabon 13 minutes from Gobowen, with a signal between Chirk and Ruabon this will mean by the time the train in rear reachs Gobowen the train ahead would have cleared the signal releasing the train from Gobowen saving a 7 minute delay into Wrexham, this only occurs when the train in advance is delayed of course. By installing extra signals between Shrewsbury and Gobowen and not between Gobowen and Wrexham the delay will still be the same into Wrexham and all train from Shrewsbury that go to Gobowen continue to Wrexham

 

[robert2000]

I cant wait until this has finished, but in the timetable will every 2nd train terminate at shrewsbury or chester, with every other train continuing to birminham or cardiff or holyhead. (this is if the service is every 30 mins).

 

[The Planner]

If a train leaves Shrewsbury behind another, it will need to wait until the proceeding train has passed the overlap of the signal at Baschurch, this usually about a 7 - 9 minute wait. Once leaving Shrewsbury the the service in rear will be checked at the signal at Baschurch however not causing much delay.

Fair enough, without seeing a full signalling diagram of the area I cant really comment, but I take it we are talking 2 aspect signals ?. But we can't plan like that, we have to plan on green signals, therefore we can't plan on a train being checked at Baschurch.

On arriving at Gobowen you will need to wait for the proceeding train to clear Croess Newydd home, 99% of trains are stoppers stopping at Chirk (5 minutes from Gobowen) and Ruabon 13 minutes from Gobowen, with a signal between Chirk and Ruabon this will mean by the time the train in rear reachs Gobowen the train ahead would have cleared the signal releasing the train from Gobowen saving a 7 minute delay into Wrexham

How many signals are there currently between Gobowen and Croes Newyyd ?? and what aspect ??

 

[TDK]

Fair enough, without seeing a full signalling diagram of the area I cant really comment, but I take it we are talking 2 aspect signals ?. But we can't plan like that, we have to plan on green signals, therefore we can't plan on a train being checked at Baschurch.



How many signals are there currently between Gobowen and Croes Newyyd ?? and what aspect ??

There are no signals between Gobowens section signal and the home signal at Croes Newydd. The route is absolute block from Shrewsbury to Wrexham with the added 2 aspect controlled signal in the Baschurch area. In the up direction it is the same, no signals between Wrexham and gobowen and just the 2 aspect colour light controlled signal at Baschurch between Gobowen and Shrewsbury
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I cant wait until this has finished, but in the timetable will every 2nd train terminate at shrewsbury or chester, with every other train continuing to birminham or cardiff or holyhead. (this is if the service is every 30 mins).

Even with the double track it will be tight having a service every half hour because that is one in each direction every 15 minutes, it will be tight on headway, you have saltney junction at the Chester end and this is a problem as it is with the Holyhead/Llandudno services. I honestly think it is a waste of money for the improvement it will give, it would be better to have double track for the whole route and build 2 extra bridges, they would do that if it was on the Southern

 

[The Planner]

Re-doubling the whole lot would cost more than what the WAG have to spend on it, seeing as it will be funded by them.

 

[TDK]

Re-doubling the whole lot would cost more than what the WAG have to spend on it, seeing as it will be funded by them.

The only part of it actually in Wales is from Wrexham to Rosset, would the funding be joint in this case?

 

[The Planner]

It has always been the WAG that has been prepared to stump up the cash, nothing from the English side.

 

[merlodlliw]

It has always been the WAG that has been prepared to stump up the cash, nothing from the English side.

I am not so sure of that, I was under the impression some dosh was on offer
for a station at Chester Business Park, or is that dead in the water along with
stops at Rossett & Johnstown, but then WAG with its All Wales Franchise current ATW control Chester Station which is in England.

 

[robert2000]

what is the point in redoubling if you think a train every half hour is useless, chester to north wales coast runs fine every half hour. a train could terminate at wrexham if it clashes with a wsmr path, im sure a chang of trains then is ok.