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Wrexham and Shropshire refurbished stock

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F3000

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Simplicity can be the best sometimes and in this case it does work.
 

HSTfan!!!

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Pity one or rwo threaders,seem more delighted if W/S fails, NR staff comes to mind, we shall see

Personally I don't want to see W/S fail at all - I've not experienced their service but I've heard mostly good reviews, however ATW pay my wages at the end of the day! ;)
 

merlodlliw

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Personally I don't want to see W/S fail at all - I've not experienced their service but I've heard mostly good reviews, however ATW pay my wages at the end of the day! ;)

Non of us do up here, a bit more banter from George Jones

Today's test train with the refurbished stock was in Wrexham General slightly before time at 1247 on its circuit from and to Crewe.

Here is the full aspect of matching loco, three coaches and DVT as it paused in platform 1.

The barriers came down at Watery Road and there was long pause before the train moved off - traffic would have been fuming, I guess.

More tomorrow and Thursday, if you want to see it.

67013 back in the stabling point as light engine.

George Jones
SCRUA Wrexham

I am unable to send the photos on, as they were e mailed & my main computer is a failed unit. Also have a look at Wrexham M.Ps rant at
ATW on this page.
 

jopsuk

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notice the First/Buffet car has the coach letter painted on it, but the standards don't? I guess this is to mitigate against carriages being swapped between sets?
 

barrykas

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First refurbished set rumoured to be making an appearance (ECS only I'm afraid) on a Crewe - Marylebone run on Thursday this week...assuming it's racked up enough fault free miles by then.

First Chiltern DVT due to be released from Wolverton tomorrow or Thursday, and go into traffic with WSMR to allow one of theirs to be released for some work.

Cheers,

Barry
 

Daimler

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First refurbished set rumoured to be making an appearance (ECS only I'm afraid) on a Crewe - Marylebone run on Thursday this week...assuming it's racked up enough fault free miles by then.

First Chiltern DVT due to be released from Wolverton tomorrow or Thursday, and go into traffic with WSMR to allow one of theirs to be released for some work.

Cheers,

Barry

Now this would be big news!

I wonder what Chiltern livery'll look like on a DVT?
 

Daimler

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But surely loco hauled would be slower than a DMU?

Probably, though I believe loco-hauled trains will be able to take advantage of increased speed limits on the Chiltern line in the near future - perhaps stil not up to sprinter differential speeds, but certainly faster!

And besides, speed isn't everything! :D
 

The Planner

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Class 67s get 100mph running from December between Bicester and Risborough, possibly 80 from October for the interim.
 

route:oxford

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I really like the way Chiltern, W&S & DB employ "Salami Tactics" to improve the service for their customers.

Everything seems to be planned out carefully. Steadily updating, improving, refreshing and adding.

In 2014ish I expect I'll arrive at H&T Parkway to find IC225 stock displaced from the East Coast mainline ready to power towards Marylebone at its original 140mph design speed under knitting that can stand up to a hurricane.
 

tbtc

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I really like the way Chiltern, W&S & DB employ "Salami Tactics" to improve the service for their customers.

Everything seems to be planned out carefully. Steadily updating, improving, refreshing and adding

It's very impressive how Chiltern have improved (pre DB too) - can't really comment about WMSR as they've had to make cuts, but the main Chiltern service seems to have had steady improvements year after year. No "big bang", not massive leap forward, just incremental changes.

It's also the little things, like the way they explain the changes, showing *why* the stops have been rearranged, making it sound much more like a partnership with the passengers.

It's almost like they'd rather improve things by stealth than make a huge fuss (and run the risk of letting people down).
 

bengley

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Chiltern's 165s could do with a refurb in my opinion. They're VERY grey, dark and dingy inside.
 

thefab444

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Wasn't that over 13 years ago?

Yeah, the modernisation and transformation of the Chiltern line was initiated by Network Southeast. They had plans to build a fleet of Class 168s (albeit very similar in outward appearance to the 165/6s) for usage on Birmingham services.

Chiltern have a very easy franchise compared to some TOCs, so it's no wonder they've done well.
 

jon0844

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under knitting that can stand up to a hurricane.

I think that with the recent work on the ECML, it has been known for the wires to remain up even if someone sneezes within a 2 mile radius.

However, if swine flu really does break out big time and more than one person coughs or sneezes at the same time - it's going to be all over.
 

jopsuk

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I've seen a shot of the interior of the standard class carriages somewhere- I think congratulations are due to WSMR for actually following through and making it one table bay per window, lined up.

Out of interest, does anyone how much modification was done to the DVTs to get them to work with 67s rather than 86/87/90s? Are they interoperable- ie could you stick an electric on the end of one of the WSMR sets and drive it from the DVT, or are the multiple working controls too different?
 

90019

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Out of interest, does anyone how much modification was done to the DVTs to get them to work with 67s rather than 86/87/90s? Are they interoperable- ie could you stick an electric on the end of one of the WSMR sets and drive it from the DVT, or are the multiple working controls too different?

I would've thought they'd modify the 67s with a TDM to work with the DVTs.
 

WSMRMD

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I would've thought they'd modify the 67s with a TDM to work with the DVTs.

The DVT's have been converted to work with the Class 67. The modification involves a bank of relays which are driven by the controls in the cab of the DVT and send appropriate signals down a multi-core cable to the locomotive at the other end of the train. The logic for doing it that way round was actually EWS's when they converted the company train but reflecting on our experience it was the correct approach. The TDM was notouriously unreliable on the West Coast, and problems still occurr with the NXEA fleet. This is due to the complex nature of the signal that is sent down the train using the lighting control cables. It was and is not at all uncommon for the TDM to "de-configure". In essence this means that the two TDM devices on the Loco and the DVT could not be sure that they were receiving the correct signal from the other and hence would shut down to prevent in-correct signals causing the train to do things it should not!

On the other hand the Class 67's already had the AAR system as fitted to all the GM loco's in this country. This uses a 27-way multiple jumper and each cable is for one signal thus making it simpler in operation than the TDM. With the exception of a cable being ripped out by something on the track this has proved to be faultless.

It is relatively easy to modify the coach with the modifcation taking less than 8 hours and not being hugely expensive. The most expensive part is the multiway plug and socket on each end of the coach.

The DVT's retain the ability to work with a TDM equipped locomotive.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yeah, the modernisation and transformation of the Chiltern line was initiated by Network Southeast. They had plans to build a fleet of Class 168s (albeit very similar in outward appearance to the 165/6s) for usage on Birmingham services.

Chiltern have a very easy franchise compared to some TOCs, so it's no wonder they've done well.

The initial Route Modernisation in the late 80's and very early 90's was instigated by Network South East under BR. This included the replacement of all the signalling as far north as Aynho Junction controlled from a new signalling centre at Marylebone and the purchase of the Class 165's (although 165001 to 007 were moved to Thames very quickly).

Chiltern Railways as it is now really started in April 1994 when Chiltern was separated from Thames and Chiltern and became an entity in its own right. At that time Adrian Shooter was installed as MD and with the exception of 5 or 6 managers he installed his own management team.

All the developments and upgrades since that time have been driven by Adrian and his team. They formally took over the running of the company as a private franchise in July 1996.

The Class 168's were developed by this team with Bombardier (then ADtranz) to the Chiltern spec. Porterbrook won the tender to finance the Class 168's and then went on to market them with Adtranz/Bombardier as the Class 170. The only significant technical difference being the electrical configuration of the front coupler. Chiltern were even offered the new 170 style front end on the initial 168's but declined the offer as it would have delayed delivery by up to 6 months.

All the infrastructure developments since 1994 have been developed in house with the co-operation of RT and then NR and that continues to this day with a DB Regio UK project team leading the development of the current Evergreen 3 project.

Exciting times continue! It is fair to say that the late 80's route modernisation set a good foundation for what has followed, but wrong to say that anything like the majority of the investment and development was even dreamt of by BR/Network South East.
 
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90019

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The DVT's have been converted to work with the Class 67. The modification involves a bank of relays which are driven by the controls in the cab of the DVT and send appropriate signals down a multi-core cable to the locomotive at the other end of the train. The logic for doing it that way round was actually EWS's when they converted the company train but reflecting on our experience it was the correct approach. The TDM was notouriously unreliable on the West Coast, and problems still occurr with the NXEA fleet. This is due to the complex nature of the signal that is sent down the train using the lighting control cables. It was and is not at all uncommon for the TDM to "de-configure". In essence this means that the two TDM devices on the Loco and the DVT could not be sure that they were receiving the correct signal from the other and hence would shut down to prevent in-correct signals causing the train to do things it should not!

On the other hand the Class 67's already had the AAR system as fitted to all the GM loco's in this country. This uses a 27-way multiple jumper and each cable is for one signal thus making it simpler in operation than the TDM. With the exception of a cable being ripped out by something on the track this has proved to be faultless.

It is relatively easy to modify the coach with the modifcation taking less than 8 hours and not being hugely expensive. The most expensive part is the multiway plug and socket on each end of the coach.

The DVT's retain the ability to work with a TDM equipped locomotive.

Makes sense, I suppose. Especially as this way round you can use any 67 with the consist, rather than just specific ones.
 

WSMRMD

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30 Apr 2009
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Yes it is true that you can use any Class 67. However only the silver ones (inc 67029) have an on board fire system which can be triggered remotely from the DVT. This is a mandatory requirement for an unattended (ie when pushing) loco on a passenger train. Therefore when we use red loco's we have to man the locomotive with a competent person when it is in pushing mode.
 
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