Would you stand?

[Greenback]

I've seen people offended by an offer to stand, but far more have just been very grateful. I do think it can be patronising to some, after all, there are 70 year olds who may look their age but are fitter than others many years younger than them.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I am!Still would, tho'.

It might be useful to read my second posting # 5 on the thread, which clarifies the position of elderly seated people (as both of us are) but in some cases who themselves suffer from an infirmity (as in my case), having suffered from two strokes since 2012 and under medical advice not to stand for long periods of time.

My good wishes are extended to you that good health is always enjoyed by you.

 

[L&Y Robert]

Thank-you Paul.

 

[Butts]

For a Lady or an old person of course

 

[Parallel]

I've given up my seat a few times when I'm sitting close to a door and an elderly person comes on, I personally think it's polite too and I am young and (I hope) capable of standing for a fairly long period of time.

The only time I would be reluctant to is if I've just done a 12 hour shift on my feet, because by that point, I usually feel like I really need to sit down before I get off the train and walk half an hour from the train station to my house. Saying that, as long as they were polite when asking I would probably still give it up anyway.

 

[bb21]

I think it's about being thoughtful about it. If you're getting visual cues from them that they'd like your seat that's fine, but standing simply because they're a woman, they're old or whatever is pretty insensitive.

What about people who are in greater need of a seat but are too polite/shy to ask, and not everyone is good at giving visual cues, or interpreting them? Do you seriously think that someone who has difficulty accepting that he/she has a genuine need for a seat would proactively ask for a seat or drop visual cues to bring attention to that fact?

I know plenty of people who are like that, because doing so is seen as an explicit acknowledgement that they are weak(er), and I bet that they are not the only ones. How would you go about being "thoughtful" as you put it if you don't offer your seat to them proactively.

The issue of giving up a seat to someone who is female and someone who is old are two completely separate things. I wouldn't offer my seat to a stranger simply because she is female, as that is not a reason why she would need it more than I do. She can easily be as fit and as strong as I am. I would offer my seat to someone who looks old and infirm, because nine times out of ten they will benefit more by being seated than I will. As for the odd one in ten, I'm sorry but I'm not a psychic. If they are just old (say, looks over 70 but without looking infirm), I still would offer my seat, because if the vehicle breaks suddenly or some other unforeseen events happen, it is far less likely to cause an injury to me if I am the one standing than an injury to the older person if he/she is standing.

It's all very well to say that it's a sad state of affairs being worried about offending people, but I think it's a pretty sad state of affairs that we patronise large portions of our population under the justification of 'chivalry' or whatever.

As I said in the other thread, the feeling of being patronised only exists in one's head because I can almost guarantee that the overwhelming majority of people wouldn't even think along those lines when they chose to give up their seat. It is all about looking out for each other and being considerate to the differing needs that we all have, which is what makes a society. Where people give up their seats for the old, the pregnant, and those who have little kids in tow, etc, it is all because there is a genuine demonstrable need. The act of giving up a seat to someone simply because she is female is a quite different matter altogether in my opinion.

There is simply no perfect solution. Some people will always be offended. I am not going to stop showing consideration to other people's needs in the majority of cases simply because a small minority for some reason cannot accept that most other people similar would benefit greatly from such a gesture of kindness and that I am not a psychic to tell them apart.

 

[Taunton]

I do think it can be patronising to some.

Not at all, there is nothing to stop a smile and a "thank you very much, but actually I prefer to stand".

 

[Greenback]

There is no perfect solution, but the application of a few social skills undoubtedly helps! I mean, there are ways and means! Would someone who is embarrassed about being old or unable to stand for long prefer the approach I mentioned earlier, or this:

'Excuse me, I notice that you seem to be more in need of a seat than I am. Please accept this seat as I am quite capable of standing thank you, and you're not'

I know that's extreme, but that is the inference and implication that older people might have difficulty in accepting!

As I said before those, the vast majority of people, in my experience, do not feel offended or patronised at all. Those that have refused a seat gracefully are, almost always, older people rather than pregnant women, or those struggling with small children.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not at all, there is nothing to stop a smile and a "thank you very much, but actually I prefer to stand".

The incident I am particularly thinking of was an elderly man who did smile, but stated loudly 'No thanks, I am NOT A CRIPPLE'.

This was about fifteen years ago, and may have been intended as a joke. It didn't come across like a joke though. It came across as though he was well and truly sick of people offering him a sit down.

 

[GodAtum]

I do feel like the question has been worded in such a way as to get a certain result...

I mean, the issue raised in the previous thread was the fact that people get offended at people assuming that they're less able to stand. If someone asked me to stand up for them, of course I would, but I wouldn't just stand up because I feel like someone over there requires it. For all I know, I'm the 47th person that day to do so, and they're getting incredibly sick of it (which is not particularly uncommon).

Thats exactly what the questions asks. Would you stand if you thought you needed to.

It seems like there no perfect solution. Another issue is people who are too shy to ask. I know a pregnant lady who says she is too shy to ask people for a seat.

 

[maniacmartin]

If I'm feeling fit I'll give up my seat, but if I'm having a bad day or am very tired etc I wont. In that case, someone who is even more able to stand than me should give up their seat instead.

 

[meridian2]

It's a complete no-brainer.

If the person was deliberately taking the p.i.s.s, then I would remonstrate accordingly.

 

[ECML180]

It's all well and good waiting for someone to ask for a seat but having worked as a sports coached for disabled athletes, I've found many people with disabilities to be shy and unlikely to ask for assistance.

As a sports coach the best course of action is to assess someone's needs and suggest politely how an environment or situation can be adapted to better cater for them, be it offering a lighter discus and something or hold as a support when throwing, or offering a seat to them on a train.

[My post along similar lines from the other thread-thought I'd bring it here where it belongs! ]

 

[DarloRich]

without a doubt yes - it is what well brought up, good mannered, decent, civilised persons would do. The person doesn't have to accept but the offer should be made.

To do otherwise is simply rude, selfish and bordering on the ignorant. It is so nice to see the I'm all right jack society flourishes in this country ( I have a thing about good manners - they cost you nothing!)

 

[Bedpan]

Back in my childhood, the buses in Newcastle all had notices up stating that children travelling on half fares must give up their seats to adults...

I don't remember any such notices, but when I was a kid it was the done thing to give up your seat to an adult, old/infirm or not. Also, the bus conductor made three of us occupy two seats if the bus was crowded. I always offered my seat on the basis that I would get one when I grew older.

Nowadays you never see kids sitting three abreast on the bus - and I don't think I have ever seen one give up their seat to anybody let alone me.

Nowadays it appears to be considered to be patronising to do so, but 50 - 60 years ago it was considered common decency.

 

[Gemz91]

Unbelievable people wouldn't give up their seats for others.

 

[GatwickDepress]

A lot of rose-tinted spectacles being worn here. My father remembers schoolchildren refusing to give up their seats on the bus or flicking paper balls at the passengers at the front when he was of school age (around the mid 1960s). Perhaps he just went to a rough grammar school.

I'l certainly stand; I will also ask if anyone would like my seat and always stand if someone asks me to vacate my seat. I find the luggage racks more comfortable on some 377s than the actual seats anyway.

Nowadays you never see kids sitting three abreast on the bus - and I don't think I have ever seen one give up their seat to anybody let alone me.

It may be logistical more than politeness; sets of seats on modern buses can barely fit two small adults, let alone three children!

 

[northern156]

If I've reserved a seat, no way will I give it up.

As previously stated:

If I have a reserved seat on a train then no, I won't move. If they can't stand they should have had the foresight to reserve a seat. It's not my problem that they didn't.

I fully agree.
If the train doesn't have reservations, I'll stay put until asked by the person needing the seat if they can have it as to avoid any sort of prejudice, although if in a Priority Seat I'll do just the same but quicker.

However if, on a bus (same as above), there are plenty of other seats that aren't that hard to get to unoccupied I won't move. If it is the only one around I'll stand/move.

 

[Deerfold]

Yes, but these days I'm careful how I do it - after a couple of incidents where I've given up my seat for someone obviously have trouble standing and as they made their slow steady way to the seat someone else jumped into it.

 

[DarloRich]

@norther 156 - So by that token on a full train you wouldn't give up your reserved seat to a pregnant lady?

 

[Deerfold]

On the tube and short journeys I'll generally stand anyway unless there's loads of seats so I don't have to bother looking out for anyone who may need the seat more.

 

[northern156]

@norther 156 - So by that token on a full train you wouldn't give up your reserved seat to a pregnant lady?

No. Why should I have to?
My reserved seat is mine, no-one else's.

EDIT: If she is in obvious signs of pain - or labour - I'll let other people give their seat up.
Saying that, if she was in labour I'd probably bail from the train anyway, I couldn't be doing with that sort of thing!

 

[DarloRich]

No. Why should I have to?
My reserved seat is mine, no-one else's.

EDIT: If she is in obvious signs of pain - or labour - I'll let other people give their seat up.
Saying that, if she was in labour I'd probably bail from the train anyway, I couldn't be doing with that sort of thing!

Unbelievable - i think it is ill mannered not to offer.

 

[Gemz91]

No. Why should I have to?
My reserved seat is mine, no-one else's.

EDIT: If she is in obvious signs of pain - or labour - I'll let other people give their seat up.
Saying that, if she was in labour I'd probably bail from the train anyway, I couldn't be doing with that sort of thing!

Seriously can't understand this mind set.

Guess I've been brought up in a different generation and a different area to you.

 

[northern156]

Unbelievable - i think it is ill mannered not to offer.

I would never expect anyone to give up a seat for me on a packed train or bus so why should it be different the other way round?

If I were a pregnant woman (or man!) I would certainly reserve a seat before I travel. If not I'd expect there to be no free seats and I should stand.
If the train was full to the brim, I would no doubt think that others would give their seats up first to a (heavily) pregnant woman.

Guess I've been brought up in a <snip> different area to you.

That could be it; once in a blue moon are buses or trains up here overcrowded so no-one has really had to give up their seats.
Still wouldn't change if it were down south though!

 

[Gemz91]

I would never expect anyone to give up a seat for me on a packed train or bus so why should it be different the other way round?

If I were a pregnant woman (or man!) I would certainly reserve a seat before I travel. If not I'd expect there to be no free seats and I should stand.
If the train was full to the brim, I would no doubt think that others would give their seats up first to a (heavily) pregnant woman.

So what about a service where you can't reserve a seat?

 

[DarloRich]

I would never expect anyone to give up a seat for me on a packed train or bus so why should it be different the other way round?

If I were a pregnant woman (or man!) I would certainly reserve a seat before I travel. If not I'd expect there to be no free seats and I should stand.
If the train was full to the brim, I would no doubt think that others would give their seats up first to a (heavily) pregnant woman.

The expectation is that you should make the offer out of good manners - unfortunately not everyone is as perfect as you in reserving seats. That said what should be the position should you find yourself on a train that does not offer reservations? It wouldn't be YOUR seat then would it?

 

[317666]

If I'm sitting in a priority seat, yes. If I'm not sitting in a priority seat, I will if asked by someone less able to stand (unless there are other empty seats which have bags or the like on, in which case they should be moved rather than someone else having to stand up).

 

[northern156]

So what about a service where you can't reserve a seat?

If the train doesn't have reservations, I'll stay put until asked by the person needing the seat if they can have it as to avoid any sort of prejudice, although if in a Priority Seat I'll do just the same but quicker.

However if, on a bus (same as above), there are plenty of other seats that aren't that hard to get to unoccupied I won't move. If it is the only one around I'll stand/move.

I tend to avoid Priority Seats for that reason.
Sorry, my above posts were focused on trains with reservations.

 

[westv]

I'm in agreement with northern156 with regards reserved seats -even if it doesn't appear to be a popular view.

 

[DarloRich]

The level of selfishness and self entitlement is staggering. I am all right jack!

I am not that old - have standards of manners and behavior fallen so far that not offering your seat to an infirm or pregnant person is seen as acceptable?