Would Scottish Independence Affect services to/from England?

[Cherry_Picker]

An independent Scotland wouldn't own its rolling stock, it would have to allow access to "non-state" train operators (EU rules etc), it certainly wouldn't be back to a BR style operation.

I was of the understanding that Scotrail did own their own rolling stock, or at the very least they have a different arrangement with the leasing companies. It's caused extra red tape with cascades before as far as I'm aware. I'm willing to stand corrected on this though.

 

[thenorthern]

I was of the understanding that Scotrail did own their own rolling stock, or at the very least they have a different arrangement with the leasing companies. It's caused extra red tape with cascades before as far as I'm aware. I'm willing to stand corrected on this though.

I think that the Scottish Government wanted to buy up the rolling stock so they could lease it to the Operator.

 

[IanXC]

Still experts on here going on about Schengrn etc I've already said as have representatives from EU and Scottish Government this is not the case. Scotland will be negotiating as an existing member.

Do you have a source for this?

Given that the European Commission would be the body undertaking such negotiations, I would have thought the President of said Commission would be one of the very best authorities to comment on the question.

I'll say it again, Scotland, in international law would be a new nation state, so they'd even have to apply for membership of the UN!

 

[gordonthemoron]

If Czech/Slovakia is anything to go on, I'd expect a reduction in cross border rail traffic.

So, WCML Carlisle terminators and ECML Berwick terminators

 

[ainsworth74]

I was of the understanding that Scotrail did own their own rolling stock, or at the very least they have a different arrangement with the leasing companies. It's caused extra red tape with cascades before as far as I'm aware. I'm willing to stand corrected on this though.

My understanding is that post-privitisation stock for ScotRail is under the control of Transport Scotland, as in they can say where it goes, but is owned by ROSCOs. Meanwhile BR era stock is under the control of the DfT and it's they who decide where it goes.

That's what I understand at least.

 

[SkinnyDave]

Do you have a source for this?

Given that the European Commission would be the body undertaking such negotiations, I would have thought the President of said Commission would be one of the very best authorities to comment on the question.

I'll say it again, Scotland, in international law would be a new nation state, so they'd even have to apply for membership of the UN!

Yes ill have a look when I get in
Every newspaper and commentator have discussed it to death

 

[YorkshireBear]

My understanding is that post-privitisation stock for ScotRail is under the control of Transport Scotland, as in they can say where it goes, but is owned by ROSCOs. Meanwhile BR era stock is under the control of the DfT and it's they who decide where it goes.

That's what I understand at least.

Gives me some hope we may get some sprinters heading back south. Seems a reasonable way to work it to be honest.

 

[DownSouth]

Do you have a source for this?

Given that the European Commission would be the body undertaking such negotiations, I would have thought the President of said Commission would be one of the very best authorities to comment on the question.

I'll say it again, Scotland, in international law would be a new nation state, so they'd even have to apply for membership of the UN!

+1

It's very clear that the independence of Scotland would be a secession from a continuing sovereign state rather than a Czechoslovakia-style equal split, given that it is just one of the four first-level administrative divisions* seceding from the sovereign state.

The Scottish will of course get their fair share of the UK's sovereign debt as part of their secession, which is only fair given they'll be getting a large share of the UK's physical assets as well.

And just in case the Scottish leaders try to take all of the assets and none of the liabilities, as a permanent member of the UN Security Council the UK will have the unfettered power to veto Scotland's attempt to gain UN membership!


* in Australia they are called states and territories, in Canada they are provinces, in the UK they are countries.

 

[SkinnyDave]

As a Scot living in England, I will not get to vote on the future of my British citizenship.

Nope neither will I living in Wales at the moment
But everyone registed to vote in Scotland even if they are Chinese or whatever will get to vote

 

[YorkshireBear]

If Czech/Slovakia is anything to go on, I'd expect a reduction in cross border rail traffic.

So, WCML Carlisle terminators and ECML Berwick terminators

Doubt it. Did Czech/Slovakia have long standing historical established well used rail routes such as WCML and ECML? I doubt anything would terminate at Berwick, probably Newcastle. And not many will go to Carlisle either, maybe Lancaster.

 

[gordonthemoron]

AFAIK, the main routes in Czechoslovakia were Pilsen-Prague-Ostrava (all in Czech) and Prague-Brno-Bratislava (cross border), the latter now only has a two hourly EC service, however there are more trains between Prague & Brno (in Czech)

 

[stanley T]

Academic. All the opinion polls indicate that the Scots will vote to stay in the UK, while the English, if they were given the option and they won't be, would vote to kick them out.

 

[SkinnyDave]

Academic. All the opinion polls indicate that the Scots will vote to stay in the UK, while the English, if they were given the option and they won't be, would vote to kick them out.

Yeah and I'd love for England to do that! You get left subsidising London

Academic? The don't knows are the ones to play for and it will be a lot closer than polls suggest

 

[Monty]

You must live on the same planet as Alex Salmound, figures since you actually believe the crap he is coming out with..

 

[gordonthemoron]

I like Steve Bell's cartoon of Alex

 

[Tumbleweed]

What on earth has this got to do with railways - its turned into a political debate planted by a 'cybernat'

 

[tbtc]

My understanding is that post-privitisation stock for ScotRail is under the control of Transport Scotland, as in they can say where it goes, but is owned by ROSCOs. Meanwhile BR era stock is under the control of the DfT and it's they who decide where it goes.

That's what I understand at least.

To try to bring this back into a railway discussion, are you saying that the stock is privatly owned (by ROSCOs), but that different Government departments have the say on what goes where?

Interesting.

 

[class303]

The only bigotry around here is coming from you and your Little Englander pals.

If you actually knew anything at all about Scotland and the SNP you wouldn't expose your own bigotry by making totally inaccurate and uninformed statements like that.

Can you actually produce a shred of evidence to back up your assertion?

I'm Scottish. class303 is the give-away. i detest the SNP and what they stand for. I find all nationalism disgusting and there's a wafer thin difference in what the SNP and the BNP stand for. Just replace hatred and racism for minorities with english.

 

[Lockwood]

I like Steve Bell's cartoon of Alex

Do I believe that Scotland should go cancel its AWS?

 

[YorkshireBear]

To try to bring this back into a railway discussion, are you saying that the stock is privatly owned (by ROSCOs), but that different Government departments have the say on what goes where?

Interesting.

So what stock do they have that they have control over? 334s? 380s? 170s?

the 156s, 158s, 314s, 318s and 320s are all under the control of the Dft. Now what happens to them depend son whether Westminster want to be bitter!

 

[tbtc]

So what stock do they have that they have control over? 334s? 380s? 170s?

AFAICS

the 156s, 158s, 314s, 318s and 320s are all under the control of the Dft. Now what happens to them depend son whether Westminster want to be bitter!

This does beg the question of why some of the 158s didn't move to Central Trains (to swap for 156s) many years ago, if Scotland doesn't control the location of the ex-BR stock

 

[St Rollox]

I'm Scottish. class303 is the give-away. i detest the SNP and what they stand for. I find all nationalism disgusting and there's a wafer thin difference in what the SNP and the BNP stand for. Just replace hatred and racism for minorities with english.

That's about as daft as it gets.
The BNP are a bunch of right wing bigots.
The SNP are a left of center social democrat party who have English members.
Btw, are the Tories, Labour and UKIP not British nationalists?

 

[khib70]

I'm Scottish. class303 is the give-away. i detest the SNP and what they stand for. I find all nationalism disgusting and there's a wafer thin difference in what the SNP and the BNP stand for. Just replace hatred and racism for minorities with english.

Drivel.

Can you produce a single statement by anyone officially connected with the SNP to back up your libellous accusations of racism?

 

[St Rollox]

I'm Scottish. class303 is the give-away. i detest the SNP and what they stand for. I find all nationalism disgusting and there's a wafer thin difference in what the SNP and the BNP stand for. Just replace hatred and racism for minorities with english.

name one? snp are a disgustingly bigoted party. Scotland will never bite the hand that feeds her.

Mike Russell born in Bromley Kent.

 

[merlodlliw]

When I read the original thread starter put up by the op, I was sure it would descend into a Political quagmire,this occurs on most sites.

On digitalspy, one thread about Scotia TV ran for hundreds of pages.

My old man told me "Never argue Politics or Religion" in a pub.


Bob

 

[brompton rail]

Perhaps the North of England and the Midlands should secede and become South Scotland

I'll vote for that!

 

[SkinnyDave]

You must live on the same planet as Alex Salmound, figures since you actually believe the crap he is coming out with..

Believe Salmond over Cameron any day of the week!

 

[thenorthern]

Here is my theory for the three lines that cross the border, this is broadly similar to what happens at the Irish Border.

Glasgow and South Western Line, continue as it is but trains will not be extended to Newcastle any more.

West Coast Mainline, London Euston Trains will continue to run to Glasgow as normal but trains from Manchester and Birmingham will terminate at Carlisle, a local service will be introduced from Lockerbie northwards.

East Coast Mainline, CrossCountry services will terminate at Newcastle, one East Coast train will run to Edinburgh per hour with no extensions to Aberdeen or Inverness, The Northern service to Chathill will be extended to Berwick-upon-Tweed to compensate.

 

[St Rollox]

Here is my theory for the three lines that cross the border, this is broadly similar to what happens at the Irish Border.

Glasgow and South Western Line, continue as it is but trains will not be extended to Newcastle any more.

West Coast Mainline, London Euston Trains will continue to run to Glasgow as normal but trains from Manchester and Birmingham will terminate at Carlisle, a local service will be introduced from Lockerbie northwards.

East Coast Mainline, CrossCountry services will terminate at Newcastle, one East Coast train will run to Edinburgh per hour with no extensions to Aberdeen or Inverness, The Northern service to Chathill will be extended to Berwick-upon-Tweed to compensate.

Why would you want to do any of that.
Are people somehow going to stop traveling because of a YES vote?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is this thread beginning to descend into the realms of total nonsense ? Where have all these cross-border travel difficulties suddenly materialised from ? Have any official statements been made from either side of the border that might give rise to this sudden rise in mental creativity expressed in certain postings.

Do certain forum members want to achieve a Gibraltar : Spain border conflict scenario between England and Scotland ?