ralphchadkirk
Established Member
If you look above I explained the official hand danger signals.
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Would jump down and cross the tracks?
- Thread starter leewoods60019
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If you look above I explained the official hand danger signals.
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R
RailUK Forums
It would take approx 1.5 to 2 miles to stop a train doing approx 100mph, depending on various factors. So you'd need to be pretty quick at running (which isn't easy along a railway line) while also ensuring that you were not in danger yourself. Given the time it would take to run that distance, unless you have a lot of speed and stamina, it would be unlikely you'd get far enough in advance of the incident to actually stop the train.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Agreed Yorkie. There isn't actually much you can do apart from yell at the person to move.
leewoods60019
Member
ah yes you did, sorry i forgot about that.
and yeah true it would take quite a bit of time, I suppose it could work on slower lines.
and yeah true it would take quite a bit of time, I suppose it could work on slower lines.
Well, that’s fair enough, I stand by my point about Woodlesford though.
Ah sorry, I thought you were asking about Bentley. At Woodlesford you generally get two express trains an hour each way, one to Nottingham and one just as far as Sheffield.
leewoods60019
Member
oh right lol no problem and cool
That is the maximum, for a 67, 3 mk3 coaches and DVT I think it is about 600 - 700m from 90mph with an EBA, I measured the stopping distance at an incident for a 2 car 158 and it was 835m from 85mph of course it could be over a mile if the railhead is wet or when there is low adhesion
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
You're right, I can't use the phone ( though hopefully as I get more used to my implant I may be able to do so ) but my point is, if you're at the station and the train isn't booked to stop then giving the emergency stop sign isn't really going to make a lot of difference is it?
Re: the other point raised shortly after you posted this, do all unstaffed stations have the help points now? But the same thing as with the phone really, although in this case I guess there would be enough volume for me to at least know when the call button has been answered even if I couldn't make out a word that was being said?
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leewoods60019
Member
I've never used one but I think that maybe if you put your hand on the speaker you can feel the sound, altho not having used one myself i'm not too sure mate
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
eh?
What sort of safety critical advice is this?
"but I think that maybe"
I suggest that if there is ANY DOUBT about safety critical advice then you don't give the advice.
(I don't mean to be harsh, but please think carefully about what you are posting if you are dealing with safety issues. Thanks)
leewoods60019
Member
This does work you know! what sort of advice is it? something that does work
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
That is actually relevant advice because they are telling me ( I am cloth eared ) how to be sure that a help point has been answered in an emergency if I had no other means of raising the alarm.
That's what I'd do too. The question would be how far I could run to make any difference. And, yes, I'd run along the SIDE of the tracks even if I knew for certain which way trains went along any individual track.
To be honest, you'd need it to happen on a 'slow' line and any approaching train is going to be stopping anyway - and you merely manage to get it to stop short of the platform.
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CarterUSM
Established Member
Of course, this will go out the window if the line/s are in an area of limited clearance or no refuge.:cry:
what if you don't know which way trains are likely to come? I mean we're trained to ask the signaller to stop all trains, and then identify problem lines.
I think the running down the line should be a last resort, or when you know that all the other options are going to be too slow.
The only possible solution, to protect platforms at stations at least, is to have CCTV monitoring that is linked to a 'red button' style alarm. If pressed, the CCTV image for that area is immediately shown to someone who can see if it warrants an instant stop or is just kids abusing it.
The only possible solution, to protect platforms at stations at least, is to have CCTV monitoring that is linked to a 'red button' style alarm. If pressed, the CCTV image for that area is immediately shown to someone who can see if it warrants an instant stop or is just kids abusing it.
Spagnoletti
Member
I have wondered about hand signals while watching trains pass before - if a driver saw a member of the public on a platform with both hands raised, would (s)he even take any notice?
If you were in the cess without high vis, hands raised or not, would you even be seen by the driver of a train doing 60+?
If you were in the cess without high vis, hands raised or not, would you even be seen by the driver of a train doing 60+?
If said person was jumping up and down in a frantic manner shouting "stop stop!!" then I'd imagine a driver would take action.
Depends on certain factors but generally you can see people on or near the line without HV
I heard of an occasion when someone was being threatened at knife point on an unstaffed South Western station, and escaped by leaping sideways off the platform, crossing right in front of a train, jumping over two third rails and getting clean away. Sounds desperate!
It's worth mentioning that people at Lymington used to see the line between the level crossing and the station as a short-cut if they were late, but that stopped when it was electrified. People still occasionally duck under the descending barriers there.
It's worth mentioning that people at Lymington used to see the line between the level crossing and the station as a short-cut if they were late, but that stopped when it was electrified. People still occasionally duck under the descending barriers there.
DescendingSadly
Member
Always happened at Bentley, always will...
I used to use the station every week to get home and it has its fair share of "plant life" but so does every other place.
As for ralph's idea of blocking the lines I suppose I can see where he's coming from but with the linespeed through Bentley the 225 would be through the station before you'd got through to the signaller. The OP must have mistimed his sightings. Once you can see a 225 from the platform coming southbound, it's on top of you in about 30 seconds. Very deceiving if as he put kids are trying to go past.
I've seen time and time again the driver of stopper services b*ll*ck the kids as they're over jumping the gates to get the train!
Just one of those things you learn to accept and if someone hurts themselves it's their own damn fault.
I used to use the station every week to get home and it has its fair share of "plant life" but so does every other place.
As for ralph's idea of blocking the lines I suppose I can see where he's coming from but with the linespeed through Bentley the 225 would be through the station before you'd got through to the signaller. The OP must have mistimed his sightings. Once you can see a 225 from the platform coming southbound, it's on top of you in about 30 seconds. Very deceiving if as he put kids are trying to go past.
I've seen time and time again the driver of stopper services b*ll*ck the kids as they're over jumping the gates to get the train!
Just one of those things you learn to accept and if someone hurts themselves it's their own damn fault.
Broken Viking
On Moderation
In my own mind; Definitely not.
I may be blessed with the ability to put a lot of heavy momentum into my movements (I've been hit twice by cyclists and once by a moped each doing about 15mph, and in all cases the rider has come off worse) but pit me against a 165 or 220 at any speed, and there would be only one possible result. It wouldn't be me walking away from that collision...
Regarding the question of saving someone; It really depends...Someone who is clearly capable of making their own decisions and calculating risks for themselves I'll leave alone and let them earn their Darwin award if they so wish.
On the other hand; In the case of someone who isn't capable of gauging the risks and making those decisions for themselves (I.E: Children under 12, and those with profound mental disabilities) would get a quick assessment of the risks and best course of action to be taken. If that includes pulling them off the line (ONLY if an oncoming train couldn't be signalled to stop in time) then so be it.
Some help points can be pretty hard for me to hear...And although I suspect I might have a minor hearing impairment (Twenty years of Metal and five years at Wacken'll do that to ye!
) I would imagine that those with even perfect hearing would struggle to understand what the operator is saying! 
hock:I don't know if this applies in most places, but the help points on all SWT stations have CCTV cameras aimed directly at them - Presumably to keep an eye on anyone pressing the [Emergency] button and/or let the operator see if the passenger is in danger or distress. What ye could try doing is to note the location of said cameras at stations ye visit regularly, and whenever using the help point face the camera and give clear sign language.
I don't know if ye can speak normally or not (I consider this possibility as there is a chap living in my street who's been deaf since birth, and he doesn't seem to have been able to learn the sounds that make up speech as a result) but if ye can, best thing to do might be to say something like "Person on line at [StationName]. Warn and stop ALL trains. I cannot hear you as I am deaf." as soon as the operator picks up. If ye can't hear the operator answering the call-point, it might be best to repeat the first two sentences about 4-6 times as soon as ye've pressed the [Emergency] button.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________
As a final note about people trespassing on the line; I was Killing time at Waterloo on Friday night (I'd just missed the 23:48 train, and the next departure was at 01:05) and came across a rather nice poster on the side of the LuL escalator building by platform 19.
It showed a line with sleepers made out of coffin lids - The epitaphs on each noting what caused them to trespass and be run-over (The usual Taking a short-cut and Went to retrieve a mobile phone etc) - And it finished off with something like "Keep off of the tracks...It's a Death sentence".
Personally, I like the ad quite a lot...But does anyone agree with me that using a photograph of a genuine one-under - Showing the full horror of the incident in a completely uncensored manner - Would be a much more effective way of getting people to stay off the lines?
Personally, I like the ad quite a lot...But does anyone agree with me that using a photograph of a genuine one-under - Showing the full horror of the incident in a completely uncensored manner - Would be a much more effective way of getting people to stay off the lines?
Actually, yes, but I doubt it would ever be legal. I've never seen a Human one-under, but I did see the remains of a Fox once, and it was fairly well mashed, having probably been hit by a 91 at full speed. While it would be fairly shocking, that sort of carnage would fall foul of advertising standards regulations.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
What ye could try doing is to note the location of said cameras at stations ye visit regularly, and whenever using the help point face the camera and give clear sign language.
I don't know if ye can speak normally or not (I consider this possibility as there is a chap living in my street who's been deaf since birth, and he doesn't seem to have been able to learn the sounds that make up speech as a result) but if ye can, best thing to do might be to say something like "Person on line at [StationName]. Warn and stop ALL trains. I cannot hear you as I am deaf." as soon as the operator picks up. If ye can't hear the operator answering the call-point, it might be best to repeat the first two sentences about 4-6 times as soon as ye've pressed the [Emergency] button.
Yes, I can talk reasonably normally - I didn't have ear problems until I was 5, and it was a long, slow, gradual, drawn out ( etc etc ) decline in my hearing at roughly the speed of an unassisted heavy freight up the Lickey incline over the following 37 years until I went into works last year to be modified with a cochlear implant.
Which is probably just as well as I am an oralist and so haven't got a clue about sign language beyond the very basic and not always official ones...
Broken Viking
On Moderation
Stuff the "Advertising standards regulations"...When it comes to important safety information and Why you shouldn't... style notices, "advertising" doesn't even come into it. Ergo, an exception should be applied in such cases, IMO.
I can understand that graphic imagery can be very distressing for the more sensitive side of the population, and I'm not suggesting 48-sheet billboards showing what's left of a Chav after an altercation with a 43...But graphic and explicit
If Network Rail ever want some consultation on such an information film, they're more than welcome to give me a shout...I've got a whole Necropolis full of ideas that I'd love to produce in video form, and I'd even offer my thoughts and suggestions for such videos entirely at zero cost!
They didn't put me off either I have to admit...Although with my liking for Gore, the Blooded images on my tobacco pouches tend to have the opposite effect to that which was originally intended. Over the last two years, I've enjoyed having something familiar to look at whilst rolling my cigarettes!
hock:I must admit I'm not really familiar with the term Oralist, but I presume it means someone who prefers to communicate through speech or something like that? Going back to the original point, at least ye could tell the person at the end of the help point what's going on...Even if ye couldn't hear what they were saying to ye.
I've always thought this Network Rail video should be more widely distributed as I think it hit hard enough and makes the point perfectly "Hit or Miss":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWd5ptO-vjs
Perhaps the only change I'd make if it was to be used for the wider public would be to change the work gang to a group of ordinary people just messing about on the line.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWd5ptO-vjs
Perhaps the only change I'd make if it was to be used for the wider public would be to change the work gang to a group of ordinary people just messing about on the line.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
I must admit I'm not really familiar with the term Oralist, but I presume it means someone who prefers to communicate through speech or something like that? Going back to the original point, at least ye could tell the person at the end of the help point what's going on...Even if ye couldn't hear what they were saying to ye.
You're exactly right, oralism is deaf communication through verbal means, the idea being to improve integration with hearing people. The question or oralism vs sign language is rather controversial and best not gone into on a railway forum.
And yes, the point is to give the message over the help point ( if one is available ); the query was about knowing that the button had been answered.
Getting back to the current part of this thread, I am also in favour of hard hitting graphic images in the anti-trespasser battle. ( maybe for those areas with 3rd rails they could show that foxhound clip with a message saying something like: "This time it was a dog, the same would happen to a human - don't let it be you. Stay off the tracks." Something like that. ).
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networkrail1
Member
im a bit amazed that no one has given the option to destroy the track circuit. Eg by track clips if available or by putting a metal bar between the track (not ontop of the rails just incase the train doesnt stop) thereby putting the signal before the incident to danger.
I think most people have moved on to ideas which don't involve going down onto the track, messing about in the four foot and placing themselves in harms way. Quite wisely too I thought.
Wyvern
Established Member
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- 27 Oct 2009
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Track circuits clips dont work in every case.
You are not likely to have anything suitable to hand
They take a while to fix securely. Would you be sure a train was not bearing down on you?
You are not likely to have anything suitable to hand
They take a while to fix securely. Would you be sure a train was not bearing down on you?
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