Would jump down and cross the tracks?

[yorkie]

government funding is a possiblity or the TOC's can help fund it, Network Rail are trying to replace level crossings with flyovers and footbridges

We're in debt, and a footbridge means cutting back on something else, so it is unlikely. Even with a footbridge, the crossing will have to remain for cars, and some people who are in a rush will still misuse the crossing as it's quicker than going up steps. This will not make the railway safer. Cars will still try to dodge the barriers. We can't replace LCs with proper road bridges as that would cost even more than a footbridge.

Yeah I would prevent it as best as I can, at least i would of been killed helping somebody

I really wouldn't. These people are engaging in a practice that appears all over nature called 'natural selection'. We can try to stop 'natural selection' but we will never eliminate it (and ultimately messing with nature too much is questionable). The chavs that do this do not deserve people like yourself to die trying to save them.

Babys in prams are a big danger to railways aswell, espcially in Australia where two prams went under a train stopping at the station and happened within about a week of each other.

They are a danger to themselves, and they cause delay. But they don't endanger the railway.

depending on where the train is and how much time i had, i could push them under the platform, and I can see your point here but if the train is a reasonable amout of time away I would help, if it was just seconds I wouldn't bother but i would try to get the driver to slow down and try slow the impact down which probably wouldn't do much good anyways

The 225 may have been doing about 90mph. So you may possibly be able to get it down to 70mph at a push. That will make no difference. If a train runs you over at any speed you'd die. If it was slow then it may be a more painful prolonged death.

Don't risk your life when chavs put themselves in danger.

 

[leewoods60019]

We're in debt, and a footbridge means cutting back on something else, so it is unlikely. Even with a footbridge, the crossing will have to remain for cars, and some people who are in a rush will still misuse the crossing as it's quicker than going up steps. This will not make the railway safer. Cars will still try to dodge the barriers. We can't replace LCs with proper road bridges as that would cost even more than a footbridge.

I really wouldn't. These people are engaging in a practice that appears all over nature called 'natural selection'. We can try to stop 'natural selection' but we will never eliminate it (and ultimately messing with nature too much is questionable). The chavs that do this do not deserve people like yourself to die trying to save them.


They are a danger to themselves, and they cause delay. But they don't endanger the railway.


The 225 may have been doing about 90mph. So you may possibly be able to get it down to 70mph at a push. That will make no difference. If a train runs you over at any speed you'd die. If it was slow then it may be a more painful prolonged death.

Don't risk your life when chavs put themselves in danger.

after all the comments on this forum and yours aswell I now know that what I could do can increase the risk and realised now - thanks for that

 

[TDK]

if the train was nearby and they couldn't get off yes, today the guy walked across and got up straight away, nearly costing is life to a speeding intercity 225

Sorry mate I would shutmy eyes and hope the train don't hit them. It's like someone in trouble in a river, why risk it!

 

[Vulcan]

Slightly off topic, but I once saw a member of railway staff at Manchester Victoria jump off the platform, walk across the track and climb up the other side to cross the line, without even any high-vis gear, or even a carefull look to see if there was a train coming. Wish I'd had my camera ready to film him and send it to Northern. Quite a while ago now but still irresponsible all the same.

As for wether I'd risk my life to save someone stupid enough to walk on the railway? Yeah right.

If I saw someone accidently fell on the track and was unable to get off, I'd go and use the telephone on the nearest signal and alert the signaller. Failing that phone 999 sharpish.

 

[leewoods60019]

Slightly off topic, but I once saw a member of railway staff at Manchester Victoria jump off the platform, walk across the track and climb up the other side to cross the line, without even any high-vis gear, or even a carefull look to see if there was a train coming. Wish I'd had my camera ready to film him and send it to Northern. Quite a while ago now but still irresponsible all the same.

As for wether I'd risk my life to save someone stupid enough to walk on the railway? Yeah right.

If I saw someone accidently fell on the track and was unable to get off, I'd go and use the telephone on the nearest signal and alert the signaller. Failing that phone 999 sharpish.

true! and wow didn't expect staffo to do that!

 

[Vulcan]

true! and wow didn't expect staffo to do that!

Neither did I, I thought railway staff generally had more brains then that. We'd have seen exactly how much brains he had if a train had come through, splattered all over the windscreen.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Serious question:

I'm deaf - how, if I am at an unstaffed station and there are no other passengers around to help, would I be able to get the job stopped in a hurry if someone fell onto the track and a train was due any moment?

 

[ChrisCooper]

Like some other people my first response if someone had fallen on the track would be to stop any approaching train as quickly as possible, using an SPT to contact the signaller if available. Trying to contact station staff would be a waste of valuble time and they would either do exactly the same as you could have done, or would use an alternative and most likely slower method of contact (going through NR control or worse their TOCs control). If the nearest SPT happened to be down the ramp or even across the track then I'd still use it, if someone's life was in danger tresspass would be the last thing on my mind. That said my own safety would still be paramount so I would only do it if I could avoid putting myself in danger. I would love to see someone get prosecuted for tresspass in a case like that, the media would have a field day. I would do the same in any situation where I felt there was an immediate risk to trains.

The only time I could see myself going onto the line in an emergency would be if it was a small child and there was a train approaching that could not be stopped in time, or if the person was partially on the track (perhaps an arm or a leg) and I was sure I could rescue them and get clear before the train came. I say small child as their size would enable them to be picked up. It's important to remember that a single person would have difficulty moving a fully grown adult or even a large child anyway. Two or more people just increases the risk of some or all getting killed and the heavier the person is the harder and slower moving them would be anyway.

 

[yorksrob]

Neither did I, I thought railway staff generally had more brains then that. We'd have seen exactly how much brains he had if a train had come through, splattered all over the windscreen.

Well I suppose, but then I actually have to cross the track to get to my station at Normanton (true, they have a flashing red light but I never really trust it). Normy isn't dangerous at all as there is only one track to cross, but I do wonder whether your errant porter at Victoria, where as far as I'm concerned there are very few, if any trains coming through at any speed, is in anywhere near as much danger as a passenger at Woodlesford, two stops up from me.

Just to put you in the picture, Woodlesford has staggered platforms, which means that when people alight from a train on the Castleford platform, they have to cross the line on a foot crossing to get to the station exit. This is perfectly safe at a quiet station such as Ham Street in Kent where there is only one train an hour, but at Woodlesford, when our train towards Castleford stops, there is often an express train timed to come the other way just as people have to cross the crossing to reach the exit. Whilst the crossing is protected by flashing red lights, I cannot stress too much that a passenger having just got off a Castleford train will arrive at the crossing and his view of any trains coming the other way will be entirely obscured by the train waiting in the Castleford bound platform. True, the flashing red lights will warn of an oncoming train, but there is the risk that someone will assume that these lights are for the train standing in the Castleford platform, and not the one quickly approaching from behind the train waiting in the platform.

Bearing this in mind, I suspect that the staff at Victoria are probably a darn sight safer than the unsuspecting passenger at Woodlesford. Infact, perhaps they ought to put in a sleeper crossing at Vic to make things easier for the staff.

Hi Lee, by the way - I was sat next to you on the way back from Edinburgh

 

[ChrisCooper]

Whether it's "safe" and whether it's right are totally different things though, and that applies as much to staff as passengers. I would be perfectly safe using the barrow crossing at my local station, but I would risk prosecution for doing so, and AFAIK staff to would be in serious trouble if they were using it instead of the bridge. When it comes to staff there is also a health and safety issue. Companies have to go to a lot of effort when it comes to providing protective equipment and forming safe working practices and if staff take unnecesary risks companies are going to come down on them as it's their arses on the line, facing claims for industrial injury or worse. Sadly these days it's not always enough to say "you want to take risks then you're on your own" with staff any more than customers. I'm involved in health and safety where I work and I've a few times had to disipline staff (including once or twice those senior to me) for doing things that I've done myself when not working, yet I know damned well that if I turn a blind eye and something happens then it's my job or worse that is on the line.

 

[leewoods60019]

Well I suppose, but then I actually have to cross the track to get to my station at Normanton (true, they have a flashing red light but I never really trust it). Normy isn't dangerous at all as there is only one track to cross, but I do wonder whether your errant porter at Victoria, where as far as I'm concerned there are very few, if any trains coming through at any speed, is in anywhere near as much danger as a passenger at Woodlesford, two stops up from me.

Just to put you in the picture, Woodlesford has staggered platforms, which means that when people alight from a train on the Castleford platform, they have to cross the line on a foot crossing to get to the station exit. This is perfectly safe at a quiet station such as Ham Street in Kent where there is only one train an hour, but at Woodlesford, when our train towards Castleford stops, there is often an express train timed to come the other way just as people have to cross the crossing to reach the exit. Whilst the crossing is protected by flashing red lights, I cannot stress too much that a passenger having just got off a Castleford train will arrive at the crossing and his view of any trains coming the other way will be entirely obscured by the train waiting in the Castleford bound platform. True, the flashing red lights will warn of an oncoming train, but there is the risk that someone will assume that these lights are for the train standing in the Castleford platform, and not the one quickly approaching from behind the train waiting in the platform.

Bearing this in mind, I suspect that the staff at Victoria are probably a darn sight safer than the unsuspecting passenger at Woodlesford. Infact, perhaps they ought to put in a sleeper crossing at Vic to make things easier for the staff.

Hi Lee, by the way - I was sat next to you on the way back from Edinburgh

Wow that does sound really bad! That actually sounds even dodgier than bentley, I wouldn't mind going to castleford one day later this year to have a look at what it's like

and heyyy! lol awesome! glad to see you on here Rob!

 

[yorksrob]

Well, that's why it might be worth controlling risk and managing it, for example by installing a staff crossing at Victoria, and actually paying to do something about places like Woodlesford, which are a death trap waiting to happen.

Wow that does sound really bad! That actually sounds even dodgier than bentley, I wouldn't mind going to castleford one day later this year to have a look at what it's like

and heyyy! lol awesome! glad to see you on here Rob!

Cheers fella, Indeed it is bad, I've been on the train when the Guard's asked people to take extra care crossing as they'd had a near miss a few days before!

 

[leewoods60019]

Well, that's why it might be worth controlling risk and managing it, for example by installing a staff crossing at Victoria, and actually paying to do something about places like Woodlesford, which are a death trap waiting to happen.



Cheers fella, Indeed it is bad, I've been on the train when the Guard's asked people to take extra care crossing as they'd had a near miss a few days before!

wow! i dno if you know but there was a similar one at bentley the other day as i've been bantering on about lol and what express service is it? TPE?

 

[yorksrob]

wow! i dno if you know but there was a similar one at bentley the other day as i've been bantering on about lol and what express service is it? TPE?

I think they have every thing there including inter-city to London and cross-country travelling at speed so It'd be a foolish place to have any sort of crossing!

 

[leewoods60019]

I think they have every thing there including inter-city to London and cross-country travelling at speed so It'd be a foolish place to have any sort of crossing!

Wow! Especially inter city and cross country is a high risk, is this castleford in west yorkshire? or in another location?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Serious question:

I'm deaf - how, if I am at an unstaffed station and there are no other passengers around to help, would I be able to get the job stopped in a hurry if someone fell onto the track and a train was due any moment?

As you are deaf (I don't know whether or not you can use a phone) when a train comes, make sure the driver would be able to see you and raise both arms straight above the head. At night, display a red light or any colour of light waved violently.

 

[Tomnick]

wow! i dno if you know but there was a similar one at bentley the other day as i've been bantering on about lol and what express service is it? TPE?

I can see the problem and potential for misuse with Woodlesford (foot crossing protected only by R/G miniature lights?), and it's a lot, lot higher than the potential for misuse at the full-barrier, CCTV crossing at Bentley! Where's Castleford crept into the discussion?

 

[Mojo]

Sorry mate I would shutmy eyes and hope the train don't hit them. It's like someone in trouble in a river, why risk it!

Same for me. When I was in year 6 at school we did weekly swimming lessons which included normal swimming as well as things to do in an emergency, and we were all taught never to enter the water to save someone.

 

[leewoods60019]

I can see the problem and potential for misuse with Woodlesford (foot crossing protected only by R/G miniature lights?), and it's a lot, lot higher than the potential for misuse at the full-barrier, CCTV crossing at Bentley! Where's Castleford crept into the discussion?

The amount of time waiting for the barriers to go up takes the monkeys! The train was not even sight when I zoomed in 16x on my camera to see it but couldn't see it for ages, and if thats your connecting train then it's highly likely people will misuse it aswell. And castleford was crept in a little earlier

 

[Tomnick]

The barriers are lowered long before the arrival of a train to ensure that the protecting signal is cleared in time to avoid the Driver responding to the double yellow two signals in rear! I assume that's what you mean - certainly whenever I've passed through Bentley, I've not noticed the barriers taking particularly long to rise after the passage of a train. Either way, there's still a physical barrier strongly discouraging misuse, and the majority of people wouldn't even consider jumping that barrier. People are surely more likely to ignore the warnings if there's no physical barrier (as at Woodlesford?) - they're more likely to take the judgment into their own hands. Shades of Elsenham?

...Woodlesford has staggered platforms, which means that when people alight from a train on the Castleford platform...

Only mention of Castleford thus far!

 

[bluenoxid]

People are surely more likely to ignore the warnings if there's no physical barrier (as at Woodlesford?) - they're more likely to take the judgment into their own hands. Shades of Elsenham?

Only until November.

 

[Tomnick]

Ah yes - clearly the risk was sufficient to do something about it. Incidentally, the problem at Woodlesford was largely with passengers crossing behind the train they'd just left, rather than (as is claimed to be the case at Bentley) people crossing to catch a train they'd otherwise miss.

 

[Wyvern]

Most unstaffed stations now have those yellow help points.

Would it help to press the emergency button?

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Like some other people my first response if someone had fallen on the track would be to stop any approaching train as quickly as possible, using an SPT to contact the signaller if available. Trying to contact station staff would be a waste of valuble time and they would either do exactly the same as you could have done, or would use an alternative and most likely slower method of contact (going through NR control or worse their TOCs control). If the nearest SPT happened to be down the ramp or even across the track then I'd still use it, if someone's life was in danger tresspass would be the last thing on my mind. That said my own safety would still be paramount so I would only do it if I could avoid putting myself in danger. I would love to see someone get prosecuted for tresspass in a case like that, the media would have a field day. I would do the same in any situation where I felt there was an immediate risk to trains.

The only time I could see myself going onto the line in an emergency would be if it was a small child and there was a train approaching that could not be stopped in time, or if the person was partially on the track (perhaps an arm or a leg) and I was sure I could rescue them and get clear before the train came. I say small child as their size would enable them to be picked up. It's important to remember that a single person would have difficulty moving a fully grown adult or even a large child anyway. Two or more people just increases the risk of some or all getting killed and the heavier the person is the harder and slower moving them would be anyway.

I've actually been in this position, I agree with most of what you say, except it would be straight to the SPT/ring the box on my mobile not through any control. I couldn't even say I've ever spoken to NR control.
And again the only way you'll get me down there is probably for a child... any other idiot is probably too thick/stupid to risk you life on in all honesty.

 

[Mojo]

Would it help to press the emergency button?

At most stations I know of, the emergency button links to 999; so I suppose they would have some link to the railways control centre.

I saw some fool press the emergency button at a station a few months ago to ask why the ticket office was closed :roll:. Said 999 operator didn't sound too impressed.

 

[ChrisCooper]

Emergency button would be good if there was no staff and no SPT. Like I said I think in any emergency that requires trains to be stopped (which would apply to more than just a person on the line) then the priority has to be to get in touch with the signaller as soon as possible. The more people in the loop the more time it takes and the more chance for confusion. It's quite well known that the more an emergency message gets passed on from the source to the person able to react on it, the less urgant it becomes. There have been cases where an emergency message has been passed through so many people that by the time it reached the person who could deal with it is was seen as fairly low priority. The recent DLR case was a classic example, the person rang the police to say someone was on the track and by the time the message got to the DLR control the controller checked the CCTV and on seeing no sign of a person on the track allowed trains to continue through the station, leading to the death of the person on the track. Had their been direct communication from the witness to the controller maybe the person would be alive today (I'm not saying in that particular case it should have happened, but it shows the point).

 

[jon0844]

I notice on some tube lines there's now an emergency button to cut power/stop trains (with a notice to say there is a hefty fine for misuse). Do these directly stop everything there and then?

Clearly these would solve the problem, but be open to horrendous abuse on open, unstaffed, stations. It's bad enough when people use the passenger alarms on trains for a laugh (as happened when I was on c2c last weekend). No action was taken either, so I guess a 'penalty for misuse' sign is worthless.

 

[Vulcan]

About Man Vic, It was two of the through lines which the member of staff crossed. And although trains mostly pass through as slow speed starting off or slowing to a stop, there are occasional other workings that come through at speed. The same day I saw a sandite train come through with 2 class 20s!

Anyway, this is off topic. It was dangerous and said member of staff should have known better. Back to the original question of would you jump onto the track to save someone else.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I notice on some tube lines there's now an emergency button to cut power/stop trains (with a notice to say there is a hefty fine for misuse). Do these directly stop everything there and then?

On the ATO lines, there are plungers to stop the train in an emergency. I don't know about power - whether the train would stop or if it wold coast. It would be meant for turning the power off in the station section rather than stopping trains.

 

[leewoods60019]

If a station didn't have an emergency button how would you actually stop the train? you could run up the line as fast as possible (not on it but at the side) and wave something to let the drivers know - Thats what they did in the railway children