Would delay repay be possible in this situation?

[Teapot42]

Travelling back from London to Chesterfield yesterday. We'd been keeping an eye on the EMR situation, originally only the 14:02 and 19:02 were cancelled, so we aimed for the 18:02. Kept checking through the day, and more and more services were added to the list of cancellations (including the 18:32 which seems actually ran in the end)

At the station it quickly became apparent the cancellations were worse than advertised, and due to the number of people there was no chance of us getting on either the 17:32 (which we had arrived in time for) or the 18:02 (which ended up being cancelled anyway), so we decamped to Kings Cross for the 18:03 Edinburgh train, with the intention of going via Doncaster.

We should have got the 20:21 from Doncaster to Sheffield, connecting in to the 20:56 to get back to Chesterfield at 21:08. In the end, this was cancelled as the driver was out of hours, so we got the 20:40 to Sheffield, then the 21:40, arriving 21:56.

First question, can we claim at all? Firstly, because EMR said essential travel only, and secondly because we voluntarily changed route.

Secondly, what we can claim?

Just the delay on the route we took? (48 minutes)

Overall delay? The 18:02 we'd aimed for should have been in at 19:46, so overall delay was more than 2 hours. However, had we been able to get on the 18:32 it would have been less.

And, if we can claim, who to? EMR who we should have been travelling with, or Northern who was responsible for the delay from Doncaster?

Tickets were Super Off Peak, so no restrictions on the train we could have chosen.

As an aside, we nearly decamped at Peterborough for the EMR Norwich to Sheffield service. Good thing we didn't as that ended up cancelled as well, and there were no later trains on that route at all.

 

[Watershed]

Travelling back from London to Chesterfield yesterday. We'd been keeping an eye on the EMR situation, originally only the 14:02 and 19:02 were cancelled, so we aimed for the 18:02. Kept checking through the day, and more and more services were added to the list of cancellations (including the 18:32 which seems actually ran in the end)

At the station it quickly became apparent the cancellations were worse than advertised, and due to the number of people there was no chance of us getting on either the 17:32 (which we had arrived in time for) or the 18:02 (which ended up being cancelled anyway), so we decamped to Kings Cross for the 18:03 Edinburgh train, with the intention of going via Doncaster.

We should have got the 20:21 from Doncaster to Sheffield, connecting in to the 20:56 to get back to Chesterfield at 21:08. In the end, this was cancelled as the driver was out of hours, so we got the 20:40 to Sheffield, then the 21:40, arriving 21:56.

First question, can we claim at all? Firstly, because EMR said essential travel only

A recommendation to avoid travel has no impact whatsoever on your rights, much though TOCs seem to think that it's some magic wand they can wave which makes all their obligations disappear!

secondly because we voluntarily changed route.

It sounds like you were there in time for the 17:32 but it was too busy to board? In that case you were quite right to travel from Kings Cross to mitigate the delay.

Secondly, what we can claim?

Just the delay on the route we took? (48 minutes)

Overall delay? The 18:02 we'd aimed for should have been in at 19:46, so overall delay was more than 2 hours. However, had we been able to get on the 18:32 it would have been less.

You claim based on your intended journey and the delay you actually incurred relative to the scheduled arrival time on that journey.

It sounds like you arrived at St Pancras in time for the 17:32 but were unable to take it due to overcrowding. You took reasonable steps to mitigate your delay and any future inability to board due to the disruption by going to Kings Cross. So your delay is measured against the time you should have arrived in Chesterfield on the 17:32.

And, if we can claim, who to? EMR who we should have been travelling with, or Northern who was responsible for the delay from Doncaster?

EMR, as it is the overcrowding on their services that led to you being unable to board and incurring subsequent delays.

You will want to select the "unable to board" (or similar) option in their claim form and enter the delay appropriately based on the delay you incurred. There's a good chance they'll just calculate your claim based on the arrival time of the next train that run but that wouldn't be correct as you cannot be expected to second-guess what would happen. You should appeal if that happens.

 

[Teapot42]

In theory we could have got the 17:02 as it departed late at 1740. The 17:32 didn't depart until 17:56, but as our intended train (18:02) had then been cancelled there looked little hope of getting on board, especially as earlier advice had been the 18:32 and 19:02 had been cancelled.

I would say we didn't make much of an attempt to board. The sheer numbers waiting and the number of cancellations made us quickly realise the chances of getting on were slim, and if we missed the 18:09 from Kings Cross then we'd likely miss our onwards connection at Doncaster. As it happened, that didn't run anyway so we'd have been no later giving it more time to get on something at St Pancras, but without a crystal ball there is no way to know.

 

[Watershed]

In theory we could have got the 17:02 as it departed late at 1740. The 17:32 didn't depart until 17:56, but as our intended train (18:02) had then been cancelled there looked little hope of getting on board, especially as earlier advice had been the 18:32 and 19:02 had been cancelled.

I would say we didn't make much of an attempt to board. The sheer numbers waiting and the number of cancellations made us quickly realise the chances of getting on were slim, and if we missed the 18:09 from Kings Cross then we'd likely miss our onwards connection at Doncaster. As it happened, that didn't run anyway so we'd have been no later giving it more time to get on something at St Pancras, but without a crystal ball there is no way to know.

Exactly, you cannot be expected to decide with the benefit of hindsight. As long as your actions are reasonable in the circumstances then you are entitled to Delay Repay based on your actual delay.

 

[Haywain]

I am not convinced that you have a valid claim based on not being able to board a train that you didn't try to board - the decision you made appears to have been based more on perception than fact. You do, however, have an entirely valid claim against Northern based on the route you actually took.

 

[Teapot42]

I am not convinced that you have a valid claim based on not being able to board a train that you didn't try to board - the decision you made appears to have been based more on perception than fact. You do, however, have an entirely valid claim against Northern based on the route you actually took.

This is one thing worrying me with the claim. It's a hard thing to evidence, and how far do you need to take attempting to board? When we believed the next three trains to be cancelled it seemed prudent to choose the alternative. Had we known the 18:02 was the last cancellation then we might have stuck with it, but the EMR page suggested otherwise, and if we'd held out too long then the alternative would have disappeared.

Is the expectation to queue until you either get on or get stuck?

If the claim is against Northern, how do we go about making this, as our ticket was only valid on their train due to agreed acceptance, so I can see it being very difficult to get anyone to understand the circumstances.

 

[Haywain]

If the claim is against Northern, how do we go about making this, as our ticket was only valid on their train due to agreed acceptance, so I can see it being very difficult to get anyone to understand the circumstances.

Ticket acceptance makes it a valid ticket, without question, and entitles you to Delay Repay compensation for delays on their trains.

 

[Starmill]

I am not convinced that you have a valid claim based on not being able to board a train that you didn't try to board - the decision you made appears to have been based more on perception than fact. You do, however, have an entirely valid claim against Northern based on the route you actually took.

I personally would have approached the train, for this reason. One shouldn't simply guess that the train is too full to join. That said, the way I read it, the OP wasn't even permitted to access the platform due to the number of people onboard the train?

Unfortunately it's very common that passengers are forbidden from approaching the train at platforms 1-4 when they're already full. This is usually very poorly communicated, though clearly, on occasion, it is the only option left. If that did happen it wouldn't undermine a claim.

I would always advise that travellers should approach a member of staff or attempt to board their intended train in these circumstances. I appreciate though that there will be occasions where both are physically impossible. It's the same at Euston on some days.

 

[DelW]

In situations where the timetable has collapsed, I don't think TOCs can really go too deeply into the minutiae of claims in practice.

My last DR claim was to SWR around a month or two ago, when the Waterloo main line was in chaos. My journey to London involved changing trains at a station my first train shouldn't have called at, and I couldn't make out what the train I joined was meant to be (it stopped on the up fast at Walton on Thames). When I got back to Waterloo for my return there were no trains running at all on my line, so I caught a stopper on a different route and finished my journey home by bus.

On the DR form I simply gave the departure time of my first train and arrival time at Waterloo, and the time of the (cancelled) train home that I should have used, and arrival time at my final bus stop. I was wondering whether I would need to explain the complicated sequence of trains and buses that I'd used, but in the event it was approved almost immediately. It was for a bit less than I'd expected, but since the bus drops me nearer home (and I don't pay to use it), I didn't bother trying to query the calculations.

 

[Teapot42]

Ticket acceptance makes it a valid ticket, without question, and entitles you to Delay Repay compensation for delays on their trains.

I guess I'm more thinking how I go about submitting a claim. I guess it will be automatically rejected at first then I'll have to appeal? There never seems to be a plain text form to add details that would avoid the need to appeal...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jul 2026 ==

I personally would have approached the train, for this reason.

Getting anywhere near the barriers, never mind the train, didn't appear likely.

As I'd already prepped the alternative route it seemed prudent to go with it, rather than risk a long and uncomfortable wait and possibly not getting home at all.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jul 2026 ==

As a general question, is there an expectation how early you need to arrive at the station in situations such as these? I realise 5 minutes prior to departure would be stupid, but if they expect an hour beforehand to allow for queues then pretty much any claim could be easily dismissed.

How either side would evidence this of course is another question!

 

[Starmill]

I think it's your call. If the evidence is clear that you wouldn't have been able to join the train you could claim on that basis. It probably won't be even possible to submit any evidence of this and it won't be tested.

 

[redreni]

I am not convinced that you have a valid claim based on not being able to board a train that you didn't try to board - the decision you made appears to have been based more on perception than fact. You do, however, have an entirely valid claim against Northern based on the route you actually took.

I don't think the claim hinges on the train being too full to board, does it? Once the TOC puts ticket acceptance in place you're surely allowed, within the bounds of what's reasonable, to guess which of the routes now available to you will be quickest and take that. And to be wrong. In making that calculation you can, in my view, decide that the next train out of St Pancras will probably be the quickest option but that it will probably be too full to board given the cancellation of previous services. If you wait to see if it's possible to board then you will miss the next quickest option, which is a departure from Kings Cross. If that's the calculation you are making then I absolutely think you can bail out without waiting to see if you'd be able to board - you're acting reasonably in trying to minimise your delay.

If on the other hand you just thought the LNER route would be more comfortable and took it despite expecting it to be slower then the position is as you set out, but it does depend if the OP actively intended to delay himself.

I don't know if the OP did this, but my experience at Euston, St Pancras and Kings Cross if that when ticket acceptance is in place for disruption, staff at the station with the disruption will encourage you to divert. They have no way of knowing if diverting or waiting it out will be quicker, but they want to reduce the number of passengers waiting at their station for a reduced service that can no longer cope with the normal number of passengers trying to use it.

 

[Teapot42]

To be honest, ideally we'd have spent a couple more hours exploring London, but in light of the disruption we decided it was prudent to head off early. The information we had suggested only the 18:02, 19:32 and 21:02 were likely to be running later on, so aiming for the time we really wanted to leave was asking for trouble.

I was wondering, is this almost akin to being bumped on an airline? They are asking you to take an alternative to help their service cope. Doing so is never going to be in your favour in terms of journey time.

If you are advised to use an alternative route, and that journey is on time, you are still delayed from what you wanted to do, so surely some recompense would be reasonable?

 

[AlterEgo]

It's possible to overthink things. Just stick the claim in and see what you get.

 

[Teapot42]

Well, we put the claim in, and just today it's been rejected.

The reason is very odd though, apparently the ticket details we used are not valid for the journey.

They are trying to say the return portion of an open return from Chesterfield to St Pancras isn't valid on a train from St Pancras to Chesterfield... Can't even be peak time restrictions as we travelled on a Saturday.

Maybe they've been told to reject claims for the days when they put out a do not travel notice? Or it could be as they were getting towards the deadline (claim submitted two weeks ago) they are just rejecting regardless?

 

[Starmill]

Just appeal it as it stands maybe. Don't overthink it, you've done the claim now, prima facie you have a claim.

 

[redreni]

@Teapot42 when you claimed, did you give details of your intended and actual journeys, or just your intended?

And did your ticket have a barcode?

The only reason I can think of why this might have been rejected is they became aware of the route you took (either because you told them or they worked it out from scan data), plus they either haven't checked their records or didn't make a proper record of the ticket acceptance that they have in place at the time, and they're therefore rejecting your claim because you didn't have a valid ticket to go the way you went.

An appeal just reminding them that ticket acceptance was in place and therefore your ticket was valid both for your intended and for your actual journey, should do the trick.

 

[Teapot42]

With EMR you don't get much option to add extra information, so I just put the EMR journey we weren't able to board.

Our tickets (mobile, via TrainSplit) were scanned on the journey so it might be as you say. We did confirm with EMR what we did was a valid route, but again as you say it's not impossible they've not recorded this properly. The only place our tickets didn't scan during the two trips was the barriers at St Pancras!

The appeal allows you to add context so I've done that, I guess I need to wait another couple of weeks now for the next rejection...

As an aside, if (as was suggested up-thread) the claim is with Northern for their delay rather than with EMR for the overall journey, what happens if EMR take more than the 28 days I have to submit a claim to get back to me? Should I be looking to submit a claim to Northern just prior to this deadline as a backup, or is that not permitted?

 

[Watershed]

With EMR you don't get much option to add extra information, so I just put the EMR journey we weren't able to board.

Our tickets (mobile, via TrainSplit) were scanned on the journey so it might be as you say. We did confirm with EMR what we did was a valid route, but again as you say it's not impossible they've not recorded this properly. The only place our tickets didn't scan during the two trips was the barriers at St Pancras!

The appeal allows you to add context so I've done that, I guess I need to wait another couple of weeks now for the next rejection...

As an aside, if (as was suggested up-thread) the claim is with Northern for their delay rather than with EMR for the overall journey, what happens if EMR take more than the 28 days I have to submit a claim to get back to me? Should I be looking to submit a claim to Northern just prior to this deadline as a backup, or is that not permitted?

It is for the TOCs to transfer their claim between themselves if they think they are not the TOC liable. You merely have to submit the claim to one of the operators you travelled with (or intended to travel with) within 28 days - you don't necessarily have to submit it to the correct one.

 

[Teapot42]

Just to highlight the inconsistency here, the second claim I submitted has just been approved with a full refund...

Same details for both other than the serial number of the ticket. You can't make it up...